Warlocks being broken?

[Jhaelen]

Whoa, way to overreact ^^

In my experience warlocks are rather a bit on the weak side. The warlock will never be a big damage dealer and their defensive capabilities are also more limited than those of a 'true' spellcaster.

 

[billd91]

As a DM, I find the warlocks annoying, but not because they're always zapping things. The invocations, while rarely powerful, can be extremely useful. Since many of them last 24 hours and the warlock can fire them off without real limit, many of the powers can be considered virtually permanent.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

That's the point, really. Most level 6 warlocks will be flying all day, for example. I'm pretty sure that was intended. Think of warlock as like playing a supernatural monster, except instead of racial HD, you get your small list of cool at will powers from class. What kind of monster you're like varies upon what invocations you pick. For example, I had a Nymph's Kiss (the feat) goody two shoes CG warlock once who didn't like combat or killing. So she took invocations to do things like charm people and speak to animals.

I sort of agree with you when it comes to the all day offense, though. For example, the at will shout invocation has annoyed DMs IME when the warlock starts using it to break down every door or smash up every trap, etc... Really though, my groups use time of battle, and you run into the same problem with maneuvers that ignore hardness and DR, like mountain hammer.

 

[Falling Icicle]

Warlocks are not overpowered. If anything, they are a bit underpowered at high levels. They look really powerful on paper, but after playing one extensively, I can tell you that they're not overpowering at all. They're actually very balanced at high levels, where other spellcasters tend to rule the game.

As for Eldritch Blast, yeah, it hits most of the time because of being a touch attack, and it is also true that energy resistance doesn't apply (unless you're using an invocation like vitriolic blast). Spell resistance DOES apply. You also need to remeber, you are only able to use it once per round. 5d6 damage may seem impressive at 10th level for an at-will ability, but let me ask you, how much damage, on average, are your fighters, rangers and monks doing at that level with 2-3 attacks per round? I can very easily make an archer character that can out damage a warlock on average. 5-30 damage at that level really isn't all that impressive.

And that brings up another point. Sometimes it's more important to end a battle quickly. Warlocks can't do this. A Sorcerer or Wizard can unleash devastation to many foes at once, for double or more the damage a warlock can put out in a round. A warlock may never run out of energy, but he can't unleash sudden, widespread doom to decisively turn the tide of a battle, either. Warlocks also lack save or die effects until they get very, very high level, when they can choose baleful polymorph. Warlocks also lack the substantial defensive and utility abilities of other spellcasters.

Warlocks are a very fun and unique class. But don't let appearances fool you. They may seem extremely powerful on paper, but they're quite balanced in play. They're very good at what they do, but they can do very little. As others have said, they play more like a supernatural archer than a traditional spellcaster.

 

[Falling Icicle]

As a DM, I find the warlocks annoying, but not because they're always zapping things. The invocations, while rarely powerful, can be extremely useful. Since many of them last 24 hours and the warlock can fire them off without real limit, many of the powers can be considered virtually permanent.

Once wizards and sorcerers get permanency, they can have even more "all the time" abilities than a warlock does. And by the time you reach 8th level or so, with extend spell, there are plenty of defensive and utility spells that last all day long, meaning that, barring extraordinary circumstances, a wizard, sorcerer, cleric or druid is going to have those buffs active all the time.

Hell, anyone can fly all the time once they buy a flying carpet. You could even think of a warlock as someone who traded a spell list for a few free magic items that can't be taken away.

 

[Doug Sundseth]

I played a warlock throughout Red Hand of Doom. While the character was almost never useless in combat, he was also almost never the star. He could be counted on for a fairly consistent damage output, but never really competed with the barbarian or the wizard.

He always had a few really nice tricks, but there were situations where he had little that would help at all. The biggest annoyances for the GM seemed to be the ability to spam Dispel Magic and to fly (slowly) all the time. (From other reports, spamming Shatter is also useful/annoying in many groups.)

Not overpowered; if anything underpowered.

All that said, I would actually recommend against the class for the player (not the GM). After about six months, I started to find it boring. You're only slightly more versatile in capabilities than a Fighter and because you can't survive in close combat, you end up hiding around the corner or up in a tree and sniping.

It's a good trick, but it's not an interesting trick.

YMMV.

 

[NewJeffCT]

As a one-shot bad guy, warlocks are woefully underpowered. A level 6 warlock is going to be doing 3d6 damage per eldritch blast. That is an average of 10.5 damage per hit, which requires a ranged touch attack to hit (not always easy at level 6 with a BAB of +4). Plus, the warlock is only hitting one opponent per round at that level.

A level 6 sorcerer is going to be able to cast at least 3 fireballs per day, (most likely 4 if they have a decent CHA) each doing 6d6 damage. That is an average of 21 points of damage per round. Yes, you can save for half and get the same 10.5 the warlock gets with no save - but, the fireball can affect many targets with its 20 foot radius area of effect.

After that, the sorcerer can crank off at least 5 scorching rays, each getting 2 rays at that level and doing 4d6 damage with no save. That is an average of 28 points of damage per round, if the sorcerer hits twice. (again, no given)

Then, the sorcerer can crank off at least 6 or 7 magic missiles. Each round, he would then do another 3d4+3 damage, or 10.5 per round.

So, the sorcerer has put out way more damage over 14-17 rounds of combat than a warlock of the same level. And, the times where his damage is equal, he can affect multiple targets (fireball with made save) or he has no miss chance (magic missile)

 

[Starbuck_II]

I played a warlock throughout Red Hand of Doom. While the character was almost never useless in combat, he was also almost never the star. He could be counted on for a fairly consistent damage output, but never really competed with the barbarian or the wizard.

He always had a few really nice tricks, but there were situations where he had little that would help at all. The biggest annoyances for the GM seemed to be the ability to spam Dispel Magic and to fly (slowly) all the time. (From other reports, spamming Shatter is also useful/annoying in many groups.)

Not overpowered; if anything underpowered.

All that said, I would actually recommend against the class for the player (not the GM). After about six months, I started to find it boring. You're only slightly more versatile in capabilities than a Fighter and because you can't survive in close combat, you end up hiding around the corner or up in a tree and sniping.

It's a good trick, but it's not an interesting trick.

YMMV.

Combine the Warlock with another class. Sure you lose a few abilities, but it is really good.

A Cha dumped Warlock is pretty good (fell flight, Entropic Warding, etc don't use Cha).

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yeah, warlocks are rather boring after a while, from my experience, I'd also recommend to play a regular caster, whether or not your DM allows warlock. You can make an effective and fun warlock with versatility, but it requires you to make heavy usage of the only class features your DM didn't seem to mind (and IMO the most powerful ones, far more than that piddly eldritch blast): the ability to take 10 on UMD and later on craft any item you have the feat for. After just a few levels, with tons of wands and scrolls, you can have a lot of combat options and utility spells. If you do go warlock, you'll want to think of a lot of useful low level spells to get in item form and max that UMD score.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

As a one-shot bad guy, warlocks are woefully underpowered. A level 6 warlock is going to be doing 3d6 damage per eldritch blast. That is an average of 10.5 damage per hit, which requires a ranged touch attack to hit (not always easy at level 6 with a BAB of +4). Plus, the warlock is only hitting one opponent per round at that level.

A level 6 sorcerer is going to be able to cast at least 3 fireballs per day, (most likely 4 if they have a decent CHA) each doing 6d6 damage. That is an average of 21 points of damage per round. Yes, you can save for half and get the same 10.5 the warlock gets with no save - but, the fireball can affect many targets with its 20 foot radius area of effect.

After that, the sorcerer can crank off at least 5 scorching rays, each getting 2 rays at that level and doing 4d6 damage with no save. That is an average of 28 points of damage per round, if the sorcerer hits twice. (again, no given)

Then, the sorcerer can crank off at least 6 or 7 magic missiles. Each round, he would then do another 3d4+3 damage, or 10.5 per round.

So, the sorcerer has put out way more damage over 14-17 rounds of combat than a warlock of the same level. And, the times where his damage is equal, he can affect multiple targets (fireball with made save) or he has no miss chance (magic missile)

Very well summarized. And it is a shame. Warlocks are fairly simple to stat out, they'd make wonderful replacements for BBEG casters to save prep time, but they really are awful in that role. They do too little damage per round to be threatening at the assumed CR, and have too many HD and special abilities to honestly get knocked down by more than a few points of CR, either.