D&D 5E Warlocks & Patrons

[Icharbezol]

You know, not every Patron has to be Evil.

Possibly of use: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041115a
http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041122a
- Particularly the flavour text of the first article: its very good as a guide to Paladins dealing with low-level Evil rather than just killing everything.

Is your Paladin player's Oath simnply against "All evil creatures"? Thats a bit . . . vague. Generally something a bit more specific is useful. For example the Silver Flame primarily stands against supernatural Evil.

Yeah, I know the patron doesn't have to be evil. It's what he's wanting, to have the conflict between paladin and warlock. The vengeance oath is against demons specifically, which was nice to hear. He's decided against the Silver Flame, because the concept also now includes being a vagabond type and not being tied to a group.

Thanks for the links, I will check them out and pass them to him. Don't know how much good any more discourse will do, but I'll try not to give up entirely.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Bear in mind that he doesn't have to be part of the Church to call upon the Silver Flame.

Even if he isn't a formal worshipper of the Flame, it may still be the source of the power gained from his Oath. That also gives an option for his Warlock patron: a fiend trapped in the Flame using the established connection to contact the warlock and offer him power.

This devil plans to try to escape from the Flame through the Paladin's connection, but in must be made stronger first. Thus it deliberately drives the Paladin to fight against greater and greater evil to force him to call upon his divine powers more and more (levelling up as Paladin). As the Paladin uses his abilities more, and increases his connection with the Flame, until finally as a climactic campaign event it will break free, either trying to possess the Paladin, or escaping through and out of the Paladin to wreak havoc.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

Yeah, I know the patron doesn't have to be evil. It's what he's wanting, to have the conflict between paladin and warlock.

I think you should emulate the drama of a parent who's desperately trying to connect with their angsty teenager by allowing the conflict between the two while having the patron be overly accommodating and supportive towards the player. "I try everything to reach him but he keeps pushing me away!"

 

[Mallus]

Don't know how much good any more discourse will do, but I'll try not to give up entirely.

If you've got a player who isn't willing to compromise or work with you, then this might not be a fixable problem.

But maybe try this line of reasoning: "Look, I'm not trying to saddle your character with unwanted flaws or drawbacks. I'm not singling your PC out. Your PC is going to face opponents & obstacles. This is a given. They're going to be an adventurer, not a farmer. I'm just looking for ways to make opponents & challenges that relate to your background. That's it. It's flavor, not extra hardship."

 

[TwoSix]

I think you should emulate the drama of a parent who's desperately trying to connect with their angsty teenager by allowing the conflict between the two while having the patron be overly accommodating and supportive towards the player. "I try everything to reach him but he keeps pushing me away!"

Oh man, now I can't help but see this character as Kylo Ren.

 

[Jediking]

[T]here's two factors here that are making your experience drastically different than mine.

The player doesn't seem to care about working together to build something with the DM, he is adopting a "my way" attitude...

I'm pretty much done trying to discuss anything with him on the subject at this point. I've advised him that he can say his patron is whatever he wants it to be, tell me about what his warlock perceives their relationship to be and what the patron has told the warlock of its history. But he does not get to roleplay it or tell me how to roleplay it, assign it any stats, or build the patron in any way beyond what he's telling me is the backstory between patron and warlock.

Sounds like a no-win situation if the player won't give any feedback at all. You seem have some good ideas to help make it work, and given him options to try and be fair. As this is happening before the campaign even starts, try not to let any frustration from this creep in later. If you want immersive roleplaying and story and he's just not into it, maybe you can really delve into your other characters to help cover his lack of enthusiasm. Best of luck in your campaign.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

But maybe try this line of reasoning: "Look, I'm not trying to saddle your character with unwanted flaws or drawbacks. I'm not singling your PC out. Your PC is going to face opponents & obstacles. This is a given. They're going to be an adventurer, not a farmer. I'm just looking for ways to make opponents & challenges that relate to your background. That's it. It's flavor, not extra hardship."

I like this approach. And recommend it in general, but not just for this particular character. And so my recommendation to the OP stands. Apply this to all the PCs, not just the warlock.

Because to say you are not trying to single out the one player, but then singling them out in this way anyway, creates a bit of a perception problem. I say open this up to request all the players provide equivalent background grain for the plot grist. Expect them to all provide potential opponents & challenges that relate to each of their backgrounds.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

If it finally comes down to a situation where you just can't come to a mutually satisfactory (not just grudging acceptance--that might not end well in actual play) way of doing it , I'd just tell the player that, while his character concept is cool, it just doesn't sound like it's going to fit well in this campaign, and he might want to consider playing a different character for this campaign.

I'm convinced that just about any reasonably mature human being can enjoy playing more than one type of character. If he absolutely must play this exact character, despite your misgivings, and understanding why it is a problem...well that's a way to politely get the boot in my game.

 

[Sunseeker]

We have a bit of a problem with this in my campaign with one player who decided to go warlock, because an evil spirit granted them extra power, but since this player failed the will save against that evil spirit, the evil spirit now tags along in the back of his head. For some reason this player seems to be having difficulty determining which warlock patron that concept fits best to. I told him not to worry about it because I'll fluff it as appropriate, the long and short of it is: a powerful evil being is granting you power against your will, which you are using to your advantage, but you don't know what this spirit's goals are.

That's really all a "patron" is, a powerful entity that is granting the player power in exchange for something. Knowledge, a different sort of power, maybe a new body, access to something the spirit normally can't reach, these deals can be both willing and unwilling. But that's all it is. A powerful thing granting you power in exchange for something. Refluff as appropriate for your game.

 

[jonathonhawke]

The only kind of backstory he's come up with thus far is for his undying warlock patron to be a lost or forgotten goddess that he's married to,

If he's married to his patron, have you given any thought to who his in-laws might be, and how they feel about the situation?