Warmage - how balanced?

[Felon]

I know this has been covered, everything's been covered on ENWorld.

What is the downside to the warmage? Not being able to cast untility spells?

I've seen two in action between levels 1 and 13, and they are heavily powerful putting any other wizard and sorcerer to shame.

Please tell me there is something I'm missing.

My friend, there's so much you're missing that it's not even funny.

First of all, warmages are just good at blasting opponents. That's it. At the risk of sounding bombastic, one of the rites of passage to becoming a master of this game is the grand realization that throwing out a bunch of direct-damage at a foe is not the most overwhelming thing a caster can be doing. Why? In a nutshell, it's because the ability to absorb hit-point damage is the one thing desingers almost always consider when they put a monster together. You want to overwhelm? Abuse the stuff the game's designers didn't account for properly.

As a DM, I really love to see players fall for the warmage's allure. That means they're not starting off by casting improved invisibility and flying up in the air so that melee-only monsters become fish in a barrel. That means they're not handing out buffs like enlarge person, bull's strength, and haste that make warriors laugh at the prospect of fighting giants, or that damnable P-from-E buff that renders mind-control critters impotent. That means they're not tossing out conjuration spells like web and EBT that tie opponents down and deny them the ability to take the offensive. That means they're not summoning monsters that wind up boxing opponents in so that all of their attacks are wasted on expendable NPC's. That means they're not tossing out a hold monster spell that instantly turns a beholder into a piñata.

In short, a warmage is secretly a DM's best friend, because they never do an end run around his opponents and their tactics.

OK, now that we've got that out of the way, let's move on to the next big realization: a warmage's class features really offer little advantage over a wizard specializing in evocation. The ability to wear armor when casting spells is simply a patch for not being able to cast mage armor. Receiving a d6 hit-die bump is just a patch for being unable to cast false life. Advanced learning is a really lousy patch for not being able to add spells to your repertoire any other way. Sudden metamagic feats are a patch for not getting access to bonus feats.

What warmages have going for them? Spontaneous casting from a list of spells that are available automatically. That makes them much easier to play, and ease-of-play is certainly attractive. But a wizard is a much stronger class specifically because of its complexity.

 

[Victim]

Actually, warmages do have some battlefield control spells - including Evard's. But nevertheless, I agree. The edge the warmage recieves in blasting )) generally doesn't make up for the sacrifices they make elsewhere.

I like the class though. It seems interesting, perhaps because it's so limited. Sure, it's not the greatest thing since sliced bread, but I think the class does what it's supposed to do. Plus the flavor text seems intrigueing as well.

 

[Felon]

Oh, I like warmages fine, having played one on a couple of occasions. I will say that there's a lot that could be fixed. The 3rd-level Advanced Learning is rather worthless since 1st-level evocation spells suck pretty hard, even if you have Spell Compendium access. And they only get three more Advanced Learnings throughout their career, so they miss out on a lot of new spells that could make them a much better blaster.

Also, warmages have very little range at lower levels. Most of those spells are close (25 feet + 5 feet/2 levels) or point-blank.

Good catch on the EBT. Missed that.

 

[BlueBlackRed]

As a note: we are using the PHB2 which allows the warmage to drop the advanced learning in favor of eclectic learning.
In the cases of both warmages it allowed them to take Invisibility as a 3rd level spell; giving them a half-escape from combat option.

I agree, the lack of buffing hurts them, but I'm seeing a tactic on the table that I don't like:
The front line fighter does more of a delaying action in combat, using high AC and defensive fighting to keep himself standing while the warmage nukes from protection from behind.
If the warmage drops, the party's entire tactics have to readjust.

I'll just have to alter the encounter setups every so often to backfire on pure firepower. Creatures with energy and magic immunities for one.
Something enough to break their dependency on artillery magic.

 

[delericho]

I'll just have to alter the encounter setups every so often to backfire on pure firepower. Creatures with energy and magic immunities for one.

One thing to note, if planning to use this approach, is that the Warmage has all of the Orb spells available. Thus, a creature immune to one or two energy types is still entirely vulnerable to the Warmage's attacks. Similarly, creatures with SR have no protection against these spells - you will need to use creatures that are simply immune to most magic, such as golems, instead.

I recommend a slightly different approach - skilled combatants will be aware of the existence of Warmage academies in the setting, and will have a reasonable idea that that's what they're facing when they see an armoured spellcaster. I recommend such creatures use missile weapons, invisibly flanking rogues, flight, and other techniques to take out the 'heavy artillery' Warmage as effectively as possible. Sure, don't use such tactics too often, but if the PC tactics are getting monotonous and are excessively effective, they're appropriate.

In general, though, keeping the challenges in the game widely varied should prevent the PCs from developing the 'one true solution' to every problem. Which will be all to the good - sometimes the Warmage will shine, sometimes he'll merely be an integral part of the team, and sometimes he'll really need his buddies to help him out. Which feels about right, IMO.

 

[Felon]

I agree, the lack of buffing hurts them, but I'm seeing a tactic on the table that I don't like:
The front line fighter does more of a delaying action in combat, using high AC and defensive fighting to keep himself standing while the warmage nukes from protection from behind.
If the warmage drops, the party's entire tactics have to readjust.

I'll just have to alter the encounter setups every so often to backfire on pure firepower. Creatures with energy and magic immunities for one.
Something enough to break their dependency on artillery magic.

So, basically the fighter acts as a meat shield while the caster nukes from a distance? That's exactly how a lot of people think the traditional roles of the two archetypes should work, so I don't understand why you find this tactic not to your liking. And I'm not sure why you think the warmage class is any better at this than a regular wizard, since the latter can use indirect methods of attack like summon monster without jeopardizing invisibility.

But if you want to shake things up, just do an end run around the fighter. For instance, use Will save attacks to get him out of the way.

 

[FireLance]

One thing to note, if planning to use this approach, is that the Warmage has all of the Orb spells available. Thus, a creature immune to one or two energy types is still entirely vulnerable to the Warmage's attacks. Similarly, creatures with SR have no protection against these spells - you will need to use creatures that are simply immune to most magic, such as golems, instead.

Golems are treated as if they have infinite SR. Spells that don't allow SR (like the orb[/B] spells) affect them fine.

 

[delericho]

Golems are treated as if they have infinite SR. Spells that don't allow SR (like the orb[/B] spells) affect them fine.

You're right, of course. That's what I get for posting from memory and not checking the books.

 

[BlueBlackRed]

The overall consensus seems to be "Yes, the warmage is very powerful, but only due to his overspecialization in one area. But outside of the direct damage, he's utterly worthless."

It's pretty much the answer I expected, but I was hoping there was something I was missing.

 

[BlueBlackRed]

Golems are treated as if they have infinite SR. Spells that don't allow SR (like the orb spells) affect them fine.

Yes, I know the orb spells far too well.
Golems used to be the "screw you" to wizards of the group, forcing the party to fight differently. Now the golems are nothing much when compared to a warmage's arsenal.

Maybe soon I shall place an anti-warmage-warmage into the mix. All he does is ready actions to counterspell. That could be fun