Warrior-loremaster viable?

[jasin]

How viable is this build, and what would you do to make it more viable?
I'm aware that it's quite non-optimized... think of it as a challenge.

1	Ftr	Weapon F. (greatsword), Skill F. (knowledge [?]), [feat?]
2	Wiz	Scribe Scroll
3	Wiz	[metamagic or item creation feat?]
4	Wiz
5	Wiz
6	Wiz	Craft Magic Arms and Armour, Attune Magic Weapon
7	Ftr	[fighter feat?]
8	Lor	Secret
9	Lor	Lore, Arcane Strike
10	Lor	Secret
11	...

Comparing a Ftr1/Wiz5/eldritch knight 10 (that's when the eldritch
knight is the strongest) to Ftr2/Wiz5/loremaster 9, the loremaster
trades Fort for Will and is at -5 BAB and -7 hp compared to the eldritch
knight.

However, he also gets lore and greater lore (useless in combat, but kind
of nice anyway) and five secrets: one of those would definitely be
weapon trick, which closes the attack bonus gap to -4 (doesn't help with
iterative attacks, though).

The loremaster also gets 4 skill points and use magic device as a class
skill, allowing you to max out UMD in a level or two, especially if you
take instant mastery as one of your secrets.

As soon as resources allow, the loremaster should get a wand of divine
power. At 10th level, it's about half the recommended wealth, which is a
lot, but not completely out of line if you consider your primary weapon.

So, would this guy be able to hold his own compared to an eldritch
knight, if he tried hard enough? What should he do with his unassigned
feats? If he takes Still Spell at character level 3 and Stills just a
couple of his main combat spells, and relies on Arcane Strike for combat
spell power, preparing most spells to be non-combat utility or long
duration stuff , could he get by wearing a (preferably mithral) full
plate (and taking it off to cast the non-Stilled spells), or would that
be complete ASF-induced suicide? What about if he sneaks a level of
spellsword in there somewhere and/or a twilight armour enhancement?

 

[gtJormungand]

The main concern would be getting the necessary skill points for the right skills.

Given a 16 Int Human, you would get the following skill points per level and what you need to spend them on:
Fighter 1 ... 24 ... spending 8 points for 2 ranks in two knowledges
Wizard 1 though 5... 6 each level ... could spend enough to bring two knowledges up to 9 ranks each
Fighter 2 ... 6 ... need to spend 4 points to raise both knowledges to the 10th rank.

It's possible, just funky; You may want to wait until level 3 to start taking the wizard so you don't have to spend too many skill points crossclass.

 

[Iku Rex]

Which books can you use?

 

[Corsair]

Screw that, just use straight bard. That's basically what your flavor sounds like. Take battlecaster feat and you get Mithril Full Plate with no Arcane Spell Failure. Better HP, better BAB, lower int will be made up for skill-wise with 6 per level. Only downside is spellcasting drops significantly.

 

[jasin]

Screw that, just use straight bard. That's basically what your flavor sounds like.

Not quite: the concept is a noble from Karrnath (in Eberron) whose family made him go to a military academy. As soon as the mandatory part was over, he went back to his true love: scholarship and arcane magic. But the training leaves you with a certain mindset, so while he thinks of himself as a wizard and a sage, the most natural way of engaging enemies for him isn't channeling arcane power into them to burn them to a crisp, but channeling arcane power into himself to beat them to a pulp.

So bard is close, but comes with some baggage that is not quite appropriate: the music, and the focus on enchantments and social skills.

A better/simpler way to model this might be an eldritch knight with the Education feat, and that's what I just might end up doing. But the loremaster crossed my mind, and I got curious: is it possible to tweak a wizard PrC enough that it fulfills a Ftr/Wiz role...?

 

[jasin]

Which books can you use?

Anything by WotC, and probably most others. But any obviously overpowered material probably won't get used, due to my personal ethics if nothing else.

I know, I know, deliberately picking a suboptimal combination and then avoiding overpowered stuff is kind of asking for it. Still, it's fun to try, and I'm not averse to powerful synergy effects; that's good; feats that give you +3 to damage with a single weapon when Weapon Specialization gives you +2 are bad (I know there's no such feat; I'm just trying to illustrate the point).

 

[Iku Rex]

Don't be so quick to call a character like that "suboptimal". Some thoughts...

Classes:
I'd go Ftr1/Wiz6/Spellsword1 (CW)/LoremasterX ++

You don't want to loose more than one spellcaster level.

Armor: A Feycraft or Githcraft (DMGII armor templates, +500 and +600 gp respectively, -5% ASF) Twilight (Book of Exalted Deeds, -10% ASF, +1 armor ability) Mithral Full Plate combined with the -10% from spellsword gets you 0% spell failure.

Blended quartz from A&EG gives you a -20% ASF, as opposed to mithral's -10%, but it weights double normal.

Basically, you can wear armor. If you can afford it you want an animated shield too. (With similar ASF reductions.)

Weapon: A skillful (+2, CAr) weapon ability can be used without proficiency and at 3/4 character level BAB.

The spellblade ability (Player's Guide to Faerun, +6000) gets you immunity to dispel magic or greater dispel magic. (Get a ring of counterspells for the one you don't pick.)

It may not be optimal, but I like the quarterstaff as a weapon. Gives you that "frail mage with staff" look, and if you have a cleric in the party you can add spikes (CD).

Optionally, you could focus on natural weapons (polymorph). Beast Claws (Savage Species) are good weapons for a character with claws.

Spells:

Polymorph! (Especially if the DM lets you use Skip's polymorph rules from "Rules of the Game".) Make that draconic polymorph (Draconomicon) if possible. Trolls, Cave Trolls (MM3) and War Trolls (MM3) are good choices for combat forms.

Alter self is a low-level substitute. Tren, from Serpent Kingdoms is the best combat form. From the PH troglodytes and lizardfolk are best.

Other non-PH spells you should be especially aware of are dragonskin (Draconomicon, + natural armor) and wraithstrike (CAd, melee attacks become touch attacks).

Feats:
Arcane Strike (CW) isn't all that great IMO unless you go for natural attacks as your main attack form. (Cave Troll...) As written it affects natural weapons (plural).

Arcane Disciple (CD) is an interesting one for a religiously inclined character, as it could give you access to cleric spells like divine power, divine favor, magic vestment and righteous might. (Though not all of them, and you need a decent Wis.)

Power Attack is a good feat for any melee character. (Buy armbands of might from Complete Adventurer.)

If you go with a polymorph-happy char, try aiming for feats that boost combat maneuvers based on size and strength even further (like improved trip).

Extend Spell lets your buffs last longer, and it works well with 1 round swift action spells like wraithstrike.

 

[rowport]

I would also suggest taking a long, hard look at the Able Learner feat from Races of Destiny, that lets human characters buy cross-class skills at 1 point each instead of 2 points (level 1 only to take the feat though, so planning is required). Since both the Fighter and Wizard classes only get 2 skill points each, losing the cross-class penalties would be huge for the Knowledge Skills. Even if you do a build more like Iku suggests (i.e. more PrC, less Fighter) it would still create cross-class problems that could be avoided with Able Learner.