Warshaper immunity to criticals.. unfair?

[DarkelvenSFi]

I've had a bit of a disagreement with a player who's looking to take over DMing for a time. He favours a Rogue, I favour Druids.

The issue we're having is whether the Warshaper prestige class immunity to critical hits is unfair.

The disagreement is really over whether it's fair that a Rogue (who focuses on dealing sneak attack damage and criticals in combat) 'cannot hope to beat someone totally immune to critical hits'.

My argument is that immunity to criticals is a weakness of that class (and specialisation), which can be overcome by choosing a different playing style (it's the players choice to take that direction, and that choice includes the knowledge of its weaknesses). This works in much the same way as a Druid who faces a monster/fighting class that utilises an anti-magic field; it's a weakness that the player needs to be aware of and ready the character for.

Having said all that.. what are other peoples views? Do you accept the rules as they are, or have you encountered DMs who use a variation?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I don't have a problem with the above stated issue, and I haven't gamed with anyone who has expressed such a position.

IOW, this is one area where I don't HR much.

The single concession I've considered making- but haven't yet- is letting a Rogue (or any class with a similar ability) take a Feat to eliminate or minimize the immunity to crits of a single particular creature type or subtype, reflecting study and training to take down that kind of foe.

 

[irdeggman]

Is it any more difficult to deal with undead (from a rogue's point of view)?

There are are many other creatures that are immune to critical hits also.

 

[DarkelvenSFi]

The distinction being made is that undead, constructs, oozes, plant creatures, elementals, and similar are essentially immune to criticals, but there are ways around that 'immunity' with help (spells from companions and magical items). With the warshaper, it's a blanket (true) immunity. One that most classes can achieve with a dip into the warshaper prestige class.

I don't see a problem with it myself, mainly because it's an effect that just prevents the massive damage from one thing. Normal damage still goes through.

The Rogue sneak attack damages can stack to some truly staggering amounts. The Rogue in our group manages to deal 60+ damage with poison and Str damage with each hit. His complaint stems from wanting this to be unavoidable rather than an exceptional attack. (edit: as in, every attack he makes, he wants it to be a sneak attack with a high (12 - 20) critical chance.)

The more I think about his complaints, the more it seems like he's just upset because not everything is subject to his wrath. Or more importantly, there's something out there that poses a threat to him.

It's quite clear that I'm biased here, but I'm willing to hear what other people think about it. Does he have some basis/credit to his claims about it being unfair?

 

[Herzog]

There is a rogue alternate class feature in Dungeonscape p.13 : Penetrating strike. It replaces trap sense (NB: the bonus you get on avoiding traps) and allows you to add half your SA bonus against creatures that are normally immune to SA.

I don't have my books with me, so I don't know if that also qualifies against the warshaper's immunity, and I think it only allows (half) SA dmg when flanking, but I think it pays off to check it out

 

[DarkelvenSFi]

Great. That's a nice rule driven solution. Thanks for the info.

 

[Shin Okada]

First of all, D&D is not meant to be a PvP game. So, comparing two character builds from the point of PvP is nonsense and silly.

What more important is, if all the PCs can contribute to the party or not.

 

[DarkelvenSFi]

I can see your point, but remember that NPCs follow the same rules our characters use.

I agree that the games should be a team effort with all players working together. But what I'm facing is one of those players who wants to change the rules to give him that extra edge. Immune to criticals; fair or not?

 

[Jack Simth]

Well, a simple Blurr spell will make you immune to sneak attack (at least, against anyone without True Seeing - and Obscurring Mist will stop even that), and sneak attack doesn't multiply on a critical anyway. Considering that Warshaper gives up full casting to take levels in the PrC, it's not that bad.

 

[Theroc]

Well, a simple Blurr spell will make you immune to sneak attack (at least, against anyone without True Seeing - and Obscurring Mist will stop even that), and sneak attack doesn't multiply on a critical anyway. Considering that Warshaper gives up full casting to take levels in the PrC, it's not that bad.

Well, they do give up 'full casting', but to achieve the critical hit and stun immunity, they only need to dip one level into Warshaper.

At least, according to Crystalkeeps database. The actual text may be different, as CK isn't always accurate.