Was I being a dick to do this.

rethgryn

First Post
Traditional Games Discussion at Something Awful called me a grognard for this but i thought it was hilarious and a great "trap" to see if they were paying attention. I also arranged for this to happen when they were a few xp away from leveling so it was a sort of test to see if they were roleplayers or metagamers. This is in the Eberron setting. Ok, so the players are on a quest to get a macguffin from this town on the western side of the continent. They can't teleport there because something has gone wrong with the teleportation circle and the organization that runs the teleportation network also wants them to investigate that too.

On the way, being led by a guide through the wilds, territory that is ruled by warring humanoid clans (orcs, kobolds, goblins, etc), which I stated, in this setting, were generally not hostile to them as long as they don't cause trouble and are just passing through. The players even did a minor quest to travel with permission of an orc so that war parties and most bandits leave them alone. There is a storm as they are passing through some ruins. There is an opening in a ruined building that leads downward where they take shelter from the storm. The guide, a Orc NPC, warns them not to go deeper as the places are unexplored and there are many dangers deeper, its also not part of their mission.

The player playing as the rogue insists on going down into the cave against the advice of the NPC, as there might be treasure down there. The rest of the part argues that they have more pressing business than going into a random dungeon but begrudgingly goes along with him. They decend the stairs and go down when they see a fire in a room. Sitting around the fire are a group of orcs, who are unaware of their approach. The rogue is first in line, sneaking up on them. He tells me "great! I need the xp."

Keep in mind, the orcs are not only unaware of them, but also have done absolutely nothing to the party either. They haven't attacked villages, they aren't worshiping demons, and as far as the players know, they are just, in a cave, warming themselves around a fire, however, the rogue still thinks they deserve to die so that he can get "experience" using them as target practice. What a dick, right?

So the rogue gets ready for his sneak attack. When, luckily for the group a smart party member, jumps in and says hi to the orcs. The orcs, startled for a moment greet them and introduce themselves as a hunting party, taking shelter from the rain. Out of earshot of the orcs, the party berates the rogue for being a racist and a potential murderer.

The orcs tell them that deeper, the ruins get weirder and that it would be advisable not to go any further. There are traps and powerful defenders. The rogue takes this as even more of an invitation to go down. The group tells him that his judgement thus far has not been strong, and that they should wait it out. The rogue goes down anyway, and the party begrudingly follows. The come down stairs to a corridor lined with sarcophogai, leaning against the walls. The sarcophogai are chained shut. The rogue goes, "I'm going to open one, there is treasure, we're due for one more treasure parcel this level, its in the DMG." Before they can stop him, he undoes the locks.

Out of the sarcophogai comes a flood of oily viscous liquid that spaltters all over the floor, running into a drain, as well as an hostile fish like aberrant creature. We go into rounds. Once the slime hits the drain an alarm goes off. The rogue's turn comes up first and he blows his daily's on the creature, using his action point. The creature goes down.

At the end of the round, with the alarm still sounding bursts out of the end of the hall, a gollem. A solo monster that is 4 levels higher than then they are. "Come on," says the rogue, "we can take him, the DM wouldn't put a monster in here that was above our level." Two or three rounds, and one downed defender later, the bloodied rogue is abandoning the party, running away upstairs. The monster is bloodied but so is the rest of the group. The gollem had a power that caused him to explode when he was either bloodied or died, damaging the party. The barbarian drags the battlemind with him, as they flee. The Gollem, content that the intruders have fled, returns to his guard post.

The rogue is bound and gagged for the remainder of the journey. Also they level up.

People I told the story to took issue with me having as sort of alignment test. You see orcs in a dungeon, most players are going to assume they are there to be killed. But I thought it would be fun to subvert the expectation. Had the players killed the orcs, their guide, who is himself an orc would have left them in disgust and told the humanoid tribes about them, giving them a penalty to their reputation, a system I made up.

They also took issue with me throwing a monster at them that was 4 levels higher than them but I figured since it was a completely optional encounter that they could have avoided or fled from, it was fair game.
 

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DM perspective: good job. I'm thinking of doing a very similar adventure. They come upon a cave with orcish (Giantish) writing outside of it, with a skull and crossed axes drawn next to it to intimidate intruders, but the Giantish says "Need Help, Inquire Within." They're stuck on this island and need a return journey.

Player perspective: Is the rogue right in that you only give equal level encounters, besides now? Did you give them an indication that this fight was out of their power level? I think players deserve a perception, knowledge, or insight check (DM preference) to notice that something is out of their power level. I mean, imagine a DM pitting up heroic tier players against the medium sized, bug-like Swordwing. I mean, they look menacing and all, but what non-metagaming, or ignorant, player would assume these things are from the EPIC tier?
 

To me, DM'ing is always about challenging player expectations. If one of my player says "he'd never have a monster we can't beat" or somesuch, I see that as a hole in my DMing abilities and you can bet your sweet a** they're going to get the D&D equivalent of the Kobayashi Maru very soon. :lol: The fact that you threw this encounter at them will make subsequent encounters all the more fun--will he throw something too big at us again?

Were you being a dick? Absolutely. Congratulations on doing your job. :lol:
 

If this was the Eberron setting then the rogue got what was coming to him. Orcs are actually generally at least neutral, and the Gatekeepers are one of the most important defenders Eberron has against the Daelkyr.

Plus, it never hurts to remind both characters and players that sometimes running away is a valid option.
 


If the group as a whole (and I mean players, not characters) had already bought into the idea that in the context of the setting, orcs are not exclusively bags of experience points, I certainly see no harm and no foul. It seems like the party as a whole (sans the rogue) was working off in-character expectations, and the rogue was working off metagame expectations. It certainly seems fair to me. If the rest of the group agrees, you kind of have a consensus.
 

Yeah, that level of meta-gaming and cockiness is pure asking for trouble. He's lucky he got away with his skin intact. I agree though, you do want to try to foreshadow unbeatable encounters in some fashion. For a simple way the orcs could have described what happened when a couple of their grandfathers tried the same thing.
 


People I told the story to took issue with me having as sort of alignment test. You see orcs in a dungeon, most players are going to assume they are there to be killed.

That is debatable. Most of your players, at least, did not. Remember, alignment is what you do with it.

But I thought it would be fun to subvert the expectation.

As you should do.

They also took issue with me throwing a monster at them that was 4 levels higher than them...

Why? As long as you provide an out when things go bad, it's all fair game, particularly as you gave multiple warnings. And, heck. While the rogue's player was reading the DMG(s) he should have read the part (in DMG2) that talks about failures driving the plot forward. Success in not inherent, nor necessary, in the rules-design.
 

Lesson learnt: The guy who got the party into trouble can't be counted on, when the excrement strikes the rotational air movement device. I hate metagaming. I hate when players try to subvert the rules.
 

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