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<blockquote data-quote="Aura" data-source="post: 6828206" data-attributes="member: 6747658">I don't think people are saying players should be 'coddled', Max. You risk straw-manning people with that sort of language.I said it once, and perhaps not loudly enough, but I still maintain the seller should have had a chance to notice (or noticed outright) the gauntlets and ring when he pulls the items out in a separate scene. This is true even if he wasn't paying attention at the point it was bundled up. This is particularly true now that we find the he was actually engaged with assessing the value of the armor and he put an Int roll into it.If I remember properly, you originally agreed with this, or am I thinking of someone else? Because, it seems you've hardened your opinion since then.Anyway, what it looks like happened is this:(1) The players made a mistake(2) The DM made a determination about the consequences of said mistake(3) The players took further actions that put them in a position of potentially noticing said mistake(4) The DM made a mistake when he failed to notice (3)(5) The action was resolved with the consequences enforcedFinding out that things seem alright for the gaming group in question doesn't objectively mean a mistake didn't happen. It merely means (and thankfully) that the group is going to roll with it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Aura, post: 6828206, member: 6747658"] I don't think people are saying players should be 'coddled', Max. You risk straw-manning people with that sort of language. I said it once, and perhaps not loudly enough, but I still maintain the seller should have had a chance to notice (or noticed outright) the gauntlets and ring when he pulls the items out in a separate scene. This is true even if he wasn't paying attention at the point it was bundled up. This is particularly true now that we find the he was actually engaged with assessing the value of the armor and he put an Int roll into it. If I remember properly, you originally agreed with this, or am I thinking of someone else? Because, it seems you've hardened your opinion since then. Anyway, what it looks like happened is this: (1) The players made a mistake (2) The DM made a determination about the consequences of said mistake (3) The players took further actions that put them in a position of potentially noticing said mistake (4) The DM made a mistake when he failed to notice (3) (5) The action was resolved with the consequences enforced Finding out that things seem alright for the gaming group in question doesn't objectively mean a mistake didn't happen. It merely means (and thankfully) that the group is going to roll with it. [/QUOTE]

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