D&D 5E Was I in the wrong?

[randrak]

Let me just say that my group is composed of my best friends, I love those guys but they annoy me sometimes.
One of them is always on his phone, the whole damn time...he lifts his head when his turn is up in combat, takes a ton of time to actually do anything (doesn't help that he's a spellcaster) rather than plan while its everyone else's turns and then goes back to his phone. Outside of combat he barely participates (he claims that he's letting the others act, but it's clear that he's just too focused on his phone). I know players find their own fun and its probably my fault for not making it exciting enough to grab his attention...but everyone else seems to enjoy it...so I dunno.
The rest pay attention most of the time, though they do tend to get distracted easily...then again, it's normal for anyone...even I lose focus from time to time too.

Anyway, last night we had the end of a certain dungeon. They found the big bad boss who had several magical and expensive items. An adamantine full plate set, gauntlets of ogre strength, mithral longsword, a longsword of wounding, a ring of mindshielding a masterwork long bow and one arrow of elf slaying. When they defeated the boss I described what they had (of course, not pointing out what was magical and what wasn't). I made sure to note that the gauntlets were made to look like part of the full set though the iconography seemed different. I also mentioned that the ring was placed on the gauntlet in such a way, that it was stuck there (think Sauron's armor with the ring).
The party became focused on the sword of wounding since it seemed to have some kind of curse (I placed a ghost guardian linked to it) and they told me that they would bundle the full set up completely and carry it as is. Once they arrived to town, three members of the group went to the temple about their mission while the ranger went to the blacksmith and magic shop to see what they could find about the gear and their prices.

The ranger went to the blacksmith first and presented the adamantine armor set. The player had completely forgotten that the gauntlets of ogre strength and the ring were placed with the armor as part of the set (or he just wasn't paying attention when the barbarian told me he'd put it all together for later). The armorsmith checked it over and when he noticed the ring he casually asked if the whole thing was for sale, making sure not to mention the ring (he didn't even know the gauntlets were magical). The ranger absentmindedly said yes and sold it for a very fair price (for an adamantine armor), not realizing he was giving the gauntlets and ring away as well. He then moved on to the magic shop (to check the swords) and then met up with the rest of the crew.
It was then, when they wanted to check the ring and gauntlets that I reminded them that it was all in the set, that the ranger had sold. They were not pleased...and some were not pleased with me for not telling them. Naturally they went back to the blacksmith but he told them it had been a legitimate deal and that the gauntlets (which he didn't know about until then) and the ring were sold to him fairly, that he asked if the ranger was selling the whole thing and that it wasn't his fault the elf wasn't paying attention.

They obviously wanted it back, but he refused. I personally thought it could make a fun little side-plot, with them trying to get the items back...some saw it that way, others didn't. They tried to sneak around and steal it back, sending the sneakier ranger to the back entrance while the rest distracted the shopkeeper. When he got there, he realized that they would need to dismantle the gauntlet's finger to get the ring and not wanting to be too obvious, he left it all as was. It was only when I made a joke about the ranger leaving the door open, that I noticed how aggravated they had become by it all (I never worry about details like leaving doors opened or closed while sneaking unless it's important) but their reaction was a bit...angrier than expected.

So now, they want the items back and are planning the best way to steal them (this was a good/neutral party btw). While most seem generally fine (more or less) with what happened, it's the one that had his face glued to the phone the whole time that is super sour about it. Telling me that from now on he won't trust anyone because they were all thieves and that everyone in my world are s that take advantage of people. Granted, the blacksmith is a not a very honest person...but every time something doesn't go this player's way in social interactions he gets super salty about it all.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

First, If we are talking 5th edition and playing by the book, the characters should have been fully aware what was and wasn't magical due to the handling of an item being enough to sense there is something extraordinary about the item even if it is otherwise indistinguishable from a normal item of its type. Changing that to make it harder to tell what is or isn't magical feels, to me, like a bad move - it opens to door to frustrated players, and doesn't add anything worth said frustration to the experience.

Also, it sounds like you've changed the rules that any character can spend a short rest identifying the properties of any magic item. That again feels, to me, like a bad move - again because it adds opportunity for player frustration (usually in the way of "write that down for later" and then forgetting it), but not something actually worth that frustration.

Then, you arrive at the other choices you made. Each an opportunity to open the door to player frustration and seem like you are "against" the players, or to appear as though you are "with" the players by helping them be aware of what their characters' actions are actually doing.

The ring shouldn't be stuck on the gauntlet. Magical rings resize to fit their wearer, so all someone would have to do is put the gauntlet on and take the ring off of it. You made it seem like that wasn't possible, and I think that's a bad move.

The player clearer wasn't aware that the blacksmith was asking "...so, I get the gauntlets and that ring too if I buy this armor for that price?" So you seem to have deliberately pulled a "gotcha" on the player - that is, in my opinion, always a bad move. You could have at least provided some opportunity for the character to realize someone was pulling one over on him, even though the player wasn't aware.

Then, you appeared to your players to be suggesting that you were going to pull another "gotcha" with the open door. As I said before, I always think "gotcha" is a bad move.

To summarize: Yes, I feel you were in the wrong handling things the way you did. You were aware the player wasn't paying full attention because you saw the player "glued to the phone", and you chose to punish that behavior with in-game consequences when you could have chosen to make up for the player's lack of attention with in-game activities (rolling insight, at the very least, though I'd personally have gone with a reminder of circumstances).

Of course, saying that you were in the wrong doing what you did is not me saying that the phone-using player wasn't also in the wrong by not paying sufficient attention. However, that's a thing solved by talking with the player to figure out how to proceed (i.e. without the phone at the table, or perhaps with the phone but without you expecting so much from a player that is not as interested in the whole game as you wish he was - like how I no longer expect my chronically late friend to arrive on time, but also no longer put my self in a position to have to wait for him to arrive).

 

[Lejaun]

It seems pretty rough on the players. Its not just the phone guy who is affected, but everybody in the party. I would have some hard feelings if a player made a minor error (Are you selling everything here..yes) and they lost out on the rewards of some major loot.

 

[steeldragons]

Phones (or ipads or laptops) should not be permitted at a gaming table. Period.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[ThirdWizard]

Keep in mind that players can't see what you see happening in the gaming world. Their only insight into what is going on is what you say. If you're ambiguous, then their mental image of the world is going to be different than yours. It's inevitable for that to happen to a degree, but in cases where it's obvious that you have a different picture of the scene in your head than the players, then you need to clarify exactly what the scene is.

So, to sum it up, the player in your story did not intend to sell the gauntlets & ring, and you inadvertently tricked them into doing so by your scene descriptions.

I'd personally apologies and retcon the situation, and then use this as a learning experience.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[FrogReaver]

Let me just say that my group is composed of my best friends, I love those guys but they annoy me sometimes.
One of them is always on his phone, the whole damn time...he lifts his head when his turn is up in combat, takes a ton of time to actually do anything (doesn't help that he's a spellcaster) rather than plan while its everyone else's turns and then goes back to his phone. Outside of combat he barely participates (he claims that he's letting the others act, but it's clear that he's just too focused on his phone). I know players find their own fun and its probably my fault for not making it exciting enough to grab his attention...but everyone else seems to enjoy it...so I dunno.
The rest pay attention most of the time, though they do tend to get distracted easily...then again, it's normal for anyone...even I lose focus from time to time too.

Anyway, last night we had the end of a certain dungeon. They found the big bad boss who had several magical and expensive items. An adamantine full plate set, gauntlets of ogre strength, mithral longsword, a longsword of wounding, a ring of mindshielding a masterwork long bow and one arrow of elf slaying. When they defeated the boss I described what they had (of course, not pointing out what was magical and what wasn't). I made sure to note that the gauntlets were made to look like part of the full set though the iconography seemed different. I also mentioned that the ring was placed on the gauntlet in such a way, that it was stuck there (think Sauron's armor with the ring).
The party became focused on the sword of wounding since it seemed to have some kind of curse (I placed a ghost guardian linked to it) and they told me that they would bundle the full set up completely and carry it as is. Once they arrived to town, three members of the group went to the temple about their mission while the ranger went to the blacksmith and magic shop to see what they could find about the gear and their prices.

The ranger went to the blacksmith first and presented the adamantine armor set. The player had completely forgotten that the gauntlets of ogre strength and the ring were placed with the armor as part of the set (or he just wasn't paying attention when the barbarian told me he'd put it all together for later). The armorsmith checked it over and when he noticed the ring he casually asked if the whole thing was for sale, making sure not to mention the ring (he didn't even know the gauntlets were magical). The ranger absentmindedly said yes and sold it for a very fair price (for an adamantine armor), not realizing he was giving the gauntlets and ring away as well. He then moved on to the magic shop (to check the swords) and then met up with the rest of the crew.
It was then, when they wanted to check the ring and gauntlets that I reminded them that it was all in the set, that the ranger had sold. They were not pleased...and some were not pleased with me for not telling them. Naturally they went back to the blacksmith but he told them it had been a legitimate deal and that the gauntlets (which he didn't know about until then) and the ring were sold to him fairly, that he asked if the ranger was selling the whole thing and that it wasn't his fault the elf wasn't paying attention.

They obviously wanted it back, but he refused. I personally thought it could make a fun little side-plot, with them trying to get the items back...some saw it that way, others didn't. They tried to sneak around and steal it back, sending the sneakier ranger to the back entrance while the rest distracted the shopkeeper. When he got there, he realized that they would need to dismantle the gauntlet's finger to get the ring and not wanting to be too obvious, he left it all as was. It was only when I made a joke about the ranger leaving the door open, that I noticed how aggravated they had become by it all (I never worry about details like leaving doors opened or closed while sneaking unless it's important) but their reaction was a bit...angrier than expected.

So now, they want the items back and are planning the best way to steal them (this was a good/neutral party btw). While most seem generally fine (more or less) with what happened, it's the one that had his face glued to the phone the whole time that is super sour about it. Telling me that from now on he won't trust anyone because they were all thieves and that everyone in my world are s that take advantage of people. Granted, the blacksmith is a not a very honest person...but every time something doesn't go this player's way in social interactions he gets super salty about it all.

So basically, you temporarily made the ranger PC too dumb to realize he was selling the ring and guantlets he wanted to keep. Here's the thing, I don't care if the player mentioned them or not. The PC would definetely have the knowledge that he was selling things he intended to keep. It's your job as the DM to frame the scene and tell the player the important things his character is seeing and hearing. Because you did an awful job of framing that scene then the player had his PC do something he would have never had the PC do had the scene been framed correctly.

Clear case of gotcha. You were in the wrong.

 

[FrogReaver]

I'm going to call BS on this. Neither of us were there, so we only have the OP's words to guide us on this. He described them as a full set. A party member (the Barbarian) kept them together as a full set. The blacksmith asked if they were selling the full set.

The DM is not supposed to "trick" the players. But the DM is not supposed to retcon every player mistake, because people make mistakes. Just like in the real world.

There are times when an incomplete description causes error, and yes, the DM must adjust.

Player: I charge forward to attack the orc.

DM: Oh, remember the giant 300' pit that was right in front of you? You just fell into it and died.

Player: *ANGER*

That shouldn't happen, because the *character* would never charge into a gaping pit that was right in front of him. Here, however, everything indicates that the players (and the characters) messed up. Which is fine! It happens. Rather than retconning (which is completely uncalled for and unearned) it just adds a complications (which is fun), allowing the players to determine how their characters will handle it. Which they are doing.

No player mistake here.

 

[Maxperson]

I would have given the PC a roll to remember the ring. The gauntlets they didn't know about, so there would have been no roll for those.