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<blockquote data-quote="Aura" data-source="post: 6828258" data-attributes="member: 6747658">I can see how a DM might make the mistake of not giving a fair chance for the PC to notice the ring/gauntlets. I have yet to see how purposely omitting the fair chance makes for good DMing.First (and not in the order you presented):(1) Nobody should call the DM names, other posters names, etc, etc. Agreed.(2) I haven't been able to read intently enough to tell who things the chance should have been automatic vs who thinks it should have been a chance. (Although I suspect the 'automatic' crowd is small.) Further, I do not support making the chance automatic to simply keep the players from making a mistake. However....(3) The chance may rise to automatic depending on player action. Based on the first description, I would not have ventured this thought. However, in the updated description, when we find out the seller was attempting to assess the value of the armor, this implies an increased chance, perhaps to automatic.So, 'automatic' might even be an appropriate DM arbitration--so long as it's not to simply prevent the players from making a mistake.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Aura, post: 6828258, member: 6747658"] I can see how a DM might make the mistake of not giving a fair chance for the PC to notice the ring/gauntlets. I have yet to see how purposely omitting the fair chance makes for good DMing. First (and not in the order you presented): (1) Nobody should call the DM names, other posters names, etc, etc. Agreed. (2) I haven't been able to read intently enough to tell who things the chance should have been automatic vs who thinks it should have been a chance. (Although I suspect the 'automatic' crowd is small.) Further, I do not support making the chance automatic to simply keep the players from making a mistake. However.... (3) The chance may rise to automatic depending on player action. Based on the first description, I would not have ventured this thought. However, in the updated description, when we find out the seller was attempting to assess the value of the armor, this implies an increased chance, perhaps to automatic. So, 'automatic' might even be an appropriate DM arbitration--so long as it's not to simply prevent the players from making a mistake. [/QUOTE]

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