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<blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 6842600" data-attributes="member: 6778044"><p>Yes, but you're also assuming that what they think is a set of armor is the same as what you think.</p><p></p><p>If you go to buy a used car, and a door is replaced but not painted yet, you wouldn't ask, "Does it come with the door? Because clearly it's not part of the original car." </p><p></p><p>No, whether it matches or not, it's now part of the car.</p><p></p><p>If they stated that they picked up all of the stuff to look at later, that's one thing. But they "bundle up the suit of armor as is," is different.</p><p></p><p>Any more than I wouldn't ask, "are you selling the door with that car too?"</p><p></p><p>The armor was described as a set, including the gauntlets with the attached ring. They never indicated that they were separating them, nor thought of them as items independent of the armor. In any one of my campaigns, somebody would have spoken up and said, "I take the gauntlets" simply because they were described as different. Unless they players (characters) specify that they are viewing the gauntlets as separate from the set of armor I wouldn't have assumed otherwise.</p><p></p><p>Not to mention, in D&D, you don't buy breastplates, greaves, pauldrons, gauntlets, etc. You buy a suit of armor. </p><p></p><p>By your definition, the DM could easily have said, "oh you don't have those. You left them back in the dungeon. You said you bundled up the armor as is, but the gauntlets were clearly not from that suit of armor, and you didn't specify that you brought those."</p><p></p><p>So interpreting selling the "armor" as including those items is reasonable. The ranger, who seems to be fairly unobservant/uniterested, takes the bundle and places it on the counter for the smith to look at, then aimlessly looks around the shop while offhandedly answering the smith's questions. </p><p></p><p>So I don't think there's a gotcha or that the DM was unfair, nor do I think it's a mistake on the part of the DM. The description of the original item was a suit of armor. It's a suit of armor with some unusual features, but it was described at all points as a suit of armor.</p><p></p><p>You're right that it's not about players missing clues. It's about the players not paying attention, nor clearly indicating their intentions. Once they bundled it up as a set (which is what they all viewed it as), the bundle remains intact until they specify that they separate them. If the player was showing disinterest in the interaction and events of the game during that interaction, then I'd assume that the character was as well. I would watch for any opportunity to potentially give them at least a die roll as a reminder, but if the player isn't providing any actions or statements to lead to that, they don't just get an automatic roll.</p><p></p><p>Ilbranteloth</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ilbranteloth, post: 6842600, member: 6778044"] Yes, but you're also assuming that what they think is a set of armor is the same as what you think. If you go to buy a used car, and a door is replaced but not painted yet, you wouldn't ask, "Does it come with the door? Because clearly it's not part of the original car." No, whether it matches or not, it's now part of the car. If they stated that they picked up all of the stuff to look at later, that's one thing. But they "bundle up the suit of armor as is," is different. Any more than I wouldn't ask, "are you selling the door with that car too?" The armor was described as a set, including the gauntlets with the attached ring. They never indicated that they were separating them, nor thought of them as items independent of the armor. In any one of my campaigns, somebody would have spoken up and said, "I take the gauntlets" simply because they were described as different. Unless they players (characters) specify that they are viewing the gauntlets as separate from the set of armor I wouldn't have assumed otherwise. Not to mention, in D&D, you don't buy breastplates, greaves, pauldrons, gauntlets, etc. You buy a suit of armor. By your definition, the DM could easily have said, "oh you don't have those. You left them back in the dungeon. You said you bundled up the armor as is, but the gauntlets were clearly not from that suit of armor, and you didn't specify that you brought those." So interpreting selling the "armor" as including those items is reasonable. The ranger, who seems to be fairly unobservant/uniterested, takes the bundle and places it on the counter for the smith to look at, then aimlessly looks around the shop while offhandedly answering the smith's questions. So I don't think there's a gotcha or that the DM was unfair, nor do I think it's a mistake on the part of the DM. The description of the original item was a suit of armor. It's a suit of armor with some unusual features, but it was described at all points as a suit of armor. You're right that it's not about players missing clues. It's about the players not paying attention, nor clearly indicating their intentions. Once they bundled it up as a set (which is what they all viewed it as), the bundle remains intact until they specify that they separate them. If the player was showing disinterest in the interaction and events of the game during that interaction, then I'd assume that the character was as well. I would watch for any opportunity to potentially give them at least a die roll as a reminder, but if the player isn't providing any actions or statements to lead to that, they don't just get an automatic roll. Ilbranteloth [/QUOTE]
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