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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 6846107" data-attributes="member: 6778044">I read, I liked, and I'll respond to this part - I totally agree that it's not black and white. It never is. My reading of the situation involves a lot more than just the posts made by the DM as well. He mentions that they are best friends. Presumably they know each other very well. So the responses that state in one way or another "the DM is a jerk and I'd never play at his table" don't even come to mind for me. In addition, my general assumption is that the DM and the players are specifically not acting like jerks, and want to continue to play together and be friends. Unless there is something to specifically tell me otherwise, I always give folks the benefit of the doubt.The fact that they are best friends is really important in my opinion, because I think a player's reaction would be very different if it's one of their best friends as the DM vs. a person they met just before the game.Combine this with the fact that a summary, retelling, or description of what happened isn't what actually happened. It's a good place to start for a discussion on the situation, but the specific situation and the best solution to that specific situation is really only known by those involved. As you pointed out, this perspective colors my opinion of what we're discussing, just as everybody else's colors theirs.I've offered a number of reasons why I think the DM didn't make a mistake, and wasn't wrong. That doesn't mean everybody will (or have to) agree with me. It also doesn't mean that I don't think he could have done better. I do think that some other checks were in order, most likely a check or two made by the smith against the passive perception of the character. This is also based on my own experiences, and thinking about similar situations with my prior and current groups and what they think would be reasonable and fair. Which is why in the end I think that this is an interesting discussion which lends some valuable insight as to options to handle a situation like this fairly, but also to still provide an opportunity for the merchant to fool the players. The specific methods and situations that are acceptable are very table specific, with some groups that will really enjoy situations like this, and others that won't. A large part of this is related to the kind of game they enjoy altogether. Ilbranteloth</blockquote>

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