Was the Death of Superman a big deal?

[Tonguez]

Was Superman as intensely American when he made news over there? I remember noticing that at some point his slogan changed from "Truth, justice, and the American way" to "Truth, justice, and peace for all mankind". Now I'm tempted to research when that happened.

Those statements seam contradictory. If Superman dying was the story that showed the world that superhero deaths weren't final, and was the last time people cared to hear about infallible heroes, it sounds pretty darn influential. Just not in a positive way.

Yeah I can see that but those statements weren't suppose to be linked

Supermans death was just a meh moment once everyone saw "Oh he's not dead" and could shrug and carry on.

It happened to coincide with the zeitgeist that was turning against the "Super Boy Scout" as anything special in comparison to the darker/humanised hero (Batman and Ironman). coming in simultaneously with the zeitgeist just accelerated Centurions demotion to just another guy with more power than he needs.

The result is we now have more humanised heroes gaining popularity like Bats and Ironman and even the Hulk monster and we also see a darker Superman emerging - one who isn't perfect

Most people still associate Superman to the Red White and Blue Truth Justice and the American Way, but of course the last couple of movies have turned that against him. I recall one article even comparing Supermans demise to the fall of America (no politics!)..

 

[trappedslider]

From tvtropes :

The Death of Superman arc happened by accident: originally, the then-current Superman writers were going to get Superman and Lois Lane married; however, Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman was already green-lit at ABC, and the producers of the show wanted the wedding to happen first on the show. Forced to come up with a new storyline to replace "The Wedding" arc, Jerry Ordway, the then-current writer for The Adventures of Superman, jokingly said at the next meeting, "Let's just kill 'im!" Normally, the other writers would laugh it off, but this time, they would do the deed.

Read more: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ComicBook/TheDeathOfSuperman#ixzz3dZSlh8cd

 

[Tonguez]

From tvtropes :

The Death of Superman arc happened by accident: originally, the then-current Superman writers were going to get Superman and Lois Lane married; however, Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman was already green-lit at ABC, and the producers of the show wanted the wedding to happen first on the show. Forced to come up with a new storyline to replace "The Wedding" arc, Jerry Ordway, the then-current writer for The Adventures of Superman, jokingly said at the next meeting, "Let's just kill 'im!" Normally, the other writers would laugh it off, but this time, they would do the deed.

Read more: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ComicBook/TheDeathOfSuperman#ixzz3dZSlh8cd

I think that's an apologist anecdote intended to counter the more cynical view that the Death of Superman was a marketing ploy to boost sales of a sinking property. DC was going through a turn down at the time and they needed a boost, no doubt the thought ""Let's kill 'im!" did come up, followed by enthusiastic squeals from the Sales department.

 

[trappedslider]

I think that's an apologist anecdote intended to counter the more cynical view that the Death of Superman was a marketing ploy to boost sales of a sinking property. DC was going through a turn down at the time and they needed a boost, no doubt the thought ""Let's kill 'im!" did come up, followed by enthusiastic squeals from the Sales department.

from wikipedia itself

With the original storyline set aside in the comic, an original event was needed to replace it. According to a documentary on Superman: Doomsday, the Superman writing team members were miffed at having a year's worth of story planning put aside, and flustered for ideas. At the end of one meeting, Adventures of Superman writer Jerry Ordway suggested, jokingly, "Let's just kill 'im." The joke became a running gag in story meetings, but eventually gained traction with Superman group editor Mike Carlin. In the documentary film Look, Up in the Sky! The Amazing Story of Superman Carlin states: "the world was taking Superman for granted, so we literally said 'let's show what the world would be like without Superman'."

 

[Ryujin]

I think that's an apologist anecdote intended to counter the more cynical view that the Death of Superman was a marketing ploy to boost sales of a sinking property. DC was going through a turn down at the time and they needed a boost, no doubt the thought ""Let's kill 'im!" did come up, followed by enthusiastic squeals from the Sales department.

I would have to agree, despite what I would consider to be revisionist history to the contrary. And when it comes to Wikipedia....., well I don't necessarily trust information there, unless there's a Metric buttonne of independant supporting evidence. Ir's a place to start a search for information, not where to end one.

 

[Morrus]

Was Superman as intensely American when he made news over there? I remember noticing that at some point his slogan changed from "Truth, justice, and the American way" to "Truth, justice, and peace for all mankind". Now I'm tempted to research when that happened.

I can't speak for anybody else, but Superman never felt particularly "American" to me, the catchphrase notwithstanding. The values he promoted were universal.

The Marvel stuff does. Not in a bad way, but it's all very American.

 

[Rune]

I can't speak for anybody else, but Superman never felt particularly "American" to me, the catchphrase notwithstanding. The values he promoted were universal.

The Marvel stuff does. Not in a bad way, but it's all very American.

I wonder if part of that is because Marvel references and sets its stories in real-world (often American) cities and towns and DC uses fictional towns and cities.

 

[trappedslider]

I would have to agree, despite what I would consider to be revisionist history to the contrary. And when it comes to Wikipedia....., well I don't necessarily trust information there, unless there's a Metric buttonne of independant supporting evidence. Ir's a place to start a search for information, not where to end one.

Considering the Wikipedia article cites a making of feature on the Superman: Doomsday DVD.....

 

[Bullgrit]

Was Superman's death the first time a superhero's death was announced well in advance of the issue where it happened? I think it was, but I don't have the whole history of comics memorized. I bought (and still own) a copy of that issue and series.

Have there been any other franchise character deaths (not necessarily comic/super heroes) before or since that have had the same impact?

I'd say Captain America's death had similar impact.

But this was before Marvel made Iron Man big (I'd never heard of him before that).

On a side note: The movie Tony Stark is not the Tony Stark from the comics I read in the 80s and 90s. Anyone else feel this way?

Bullgrit

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The movie Tony Stark is not the Tony Stark from the comics I read in the 80s and 90s. Anyone else feel this way?

I only saw the first Iron Man and Avengers movies, none of the sequels or other recent Marvel movies, but IMHO, I think they nailed it.

RDJr.- himself a playboy & recovering alkie, etc.- was perfect for playing at least THAT aspect of the role. The tech side is supplied by occasional bits of technobabble dialog. The only thing missing is the actual descent into the depths of his addictions.