Was this non-Chaotic Good?

[reveal]

Well, if the elementals were servants/simliar thingie to a bad dude, then killing them would be a good idea.

My question is: How does killing an Elemental qualify as murder?

You're right. If they had been servants, then it would have been a good idea to kill them. And if the player had said something to that effect as a reason to do it than I'd be fine with it. It's just the character saying he wants to kill them simply because he wants to kill them that has me asking this question.

 

[reveal]

"You didn't say 'Mother May I,' so you were still speaking in-character."

Gimme a break.

I don't force my characters to speak in character. I don't tell them that anything they say at the table is in character. I'm not that harsh a DM.

The player has taken it upon himself to use a different voice when speaking as his character for the last 3 months. When he uses that voice, he has always been speaking in character. I did not think that this time was any different.

 

[reveal]

Oh, yeah. How the heck were the EE's trapped in a building?

(Using spoiler tags)

I was using the following adventure:

Spoiler

Dungeon Crawl Classics #3: The Mysterious Tower

 

[reveal]

"You didn't say 'Mother May I,' so you were still speaking in-character."

Gimme a break.

I'm sorry if I touched a nerve; I didn't mean to offend you with my question. I honestly just wanted opinions not a character assassination of me as a DM.

 

[ARandomGod]

Okkkkk... Perhaps I was a little harsh in your eyes. (i.e. I'm not fishing for anything, I'm asking for opinions.)

My main concern was that the character said "I want to kill them." The player said it in his "in-character voice" so I had to assume his character said it.

I DO think it's chaotic that he ran after the elementals when no one else did. I'm not saying it wasn't and I have no problem with that. But I don't think it was good to want to kill something just for the sake of killing, regardless of how intelligent that something is. True, it's all circumstancial, but in this case, I don't care if it's an Elemental or schoolchildren, I think that both of your examples should end in "NOT chaotic good, or any kind of good."

I dunno. I still think many people are good, even when I have to stop them from attempting to kill the spider that live(d) in the corner of my room above my bed.

I loved that little guy.

I also know a lot of people who kill roaches on site, and will hunt them down for no reason other than to remove their little lives. Even outside.

 

[der_kluge]

Seems like there's a bit of over-analyzing going on here. An elemental is a neutral thing, and "killing" one, it seems to me, can only really be accomplished on their home plane. So, all he can really do is remove their earthly form, and send them back to their plane. Is it evil to want to do that?

Beats me.

 

[reveal]

Seems like there's a bit of over-analyzing going on here. An elemental is a neutral thing, and "killing" one, it seems to me, can only really be accomplished on their home plane. So, all he can really do is remove their earthly form, and send them back to their plane. Is it evil to want to do that?

Beats me.

Good point. Hmmm... In that case, I have to rely more on the intent rather than the act itself. The intent was the kill them just to kill them (and he knows absolutely nothing about Elementals). BUT it wouldn't have done any harm whatsoever. What to do????

 

[Trickstergod]

But again, what's more important: the act or the reason for that act?

Player characters kill things all the time, every game. Maybe not in your campaign, but I'd wager that's not representative of most D&D groups. Kill, slaughter, critical hit, coup de grace, get them before they get us.

It seems like you're saying "emotional, impulsive" killing is evil, while premeditated, scrupulously planned murders are okay. Just be sure it's not wanton!

No, that's an over-simplified black and white response on your part. Just because I say that wanton murder is evil it doesn't mean that a planned one isn't.

Not to mention that most player characters don't randomly kill things every game, in my experience. Much of the time, it generally runs along the lines of "We're killing them before they kill us." Or they're killing things for treasure. Or to defend their kingdom. Or whatever. There's generally some reason there.

Sometimes it's a good reason. Sometimes it's not.

Let's also not forget that premeditated, scrupulously planned murders can still be wanton (i.e., gratuitously cruel, merciless; marked by unprovoked, gratuitous maliciousness).

Killing just to kill most certainly is not good. But just because you're killing with a reason doesn't make it good. Things are not black and white, so quit trying to simplify things and putting words into peoples mouth.

Otherwise, you can be construed to be saying "Well, killing with a reason and plan is evil! So killing without a reason or a plan is good!" Which obviously isn't the case.

So what do you want to know? What's more important, the act or the reason for the act? The reason, of course.

 

[tonym]

So here's my question: Was this a Chaotic Good act to you?

I would've let the matter pass without a comment, myself. Especially since the monsters were Earth Elementals. Heck, it's virtually impossible to be EVIL while killing an Earth Elemental--just like it's virtually impossible to dig a tunnel in an evil manner, or stomp your foot on the ground in an evil manner.

An Earth Elemental is a big, dangerous dirt clod. That the PC wanted to kill one for the fun of it makes sense to me.



Tony

 

[darkbard3]

To be good, or not to be good...

I have worked alignment in my games both ways... essentially no restrictions in my Dark Sun game and relatively strict in my Kalamar game... and I believe that when you are taking into account alignments, you must look at intent, not the act. Virtually any act can be either good or evil. Wanting to kill something for fun? Evil. Wanting to kill a couple of giant walking dirt clods for fun? Neutral. Not knowing those dirt clods won't die horrible painful deaths when you slice them into rubble? Evil.

I am reminded of a scene from Men In Black II when K, after being deneuralized, stops short of killing a cockroach. Killing cockroaches for fun is not an evil act. Doing so after it thanked him for sparing his life... well, you get the picture.

One thing I wonder about, for those of you who essentially ignore alignment in your games... how do you deal with aligned spells, weapons, etc.? Can anyone use them, or just those that claim to be a certain alignment? Not intended as a slam on anyone - just curious.