Waterdeep - I've got it

[Kae'Yoss]

I agree wotc did some strange decisions in terms of what prc classes to include

It wasn't just the PrC's. Most crunch in that book was just not Evil. Far too tame.

the powerlevel of the Elder Evils (I think they are just fine)

I don't. Kezef is supposed to chase Mask all over Realmspace. Why would Mask run away from something that needs a natural 20 to hit him? I'm not someone who want to replay fights from novels with the official stats or something, but the stuff should at least be in the general area of where it's supposed to be. We're talking different planets here.

These beings are said to be something even the gods fear, yet there are more than a few mortals who could bring them down. As we're talking about stuff that's really dangerous, you cannot tell me that they didn't get around to do it.

The Elder Evils should be real hard, nothing any character in his low epics could ever hope to defeat.

The argument that they are that way so player characters could beat them, since PC's are the heroes, doesn't really hold water, either. If that were the case, why do we have level 34 lich wizards in the very same book?? (Which use outdated rules to boot)

The info on the evil organizations are new, even if they should have been in Lords of Darkness. The Initiate feats are very nice, and adds lots of flavor. The realmslore is solid, especially Eltab and Malkizid is brilliant. The evil nodes and shrines are interesting, and offers a new way to design evil places.

I never said that it's rubbish from cover to cover, but the ratio of good stuff against only mediocre or even bad stuff is significantly lower than in any other FR3E book.

 

[Snotlord]

I never said that it's rubbish from cover to cover, but the ratio of good stuff against only mediocre or even bad stuff is significantly lower than in any other FR3E book.

Sounds like we agree for the most part. They CoR is far from great, but disregarding it altogether is IMO a bit harsh, because it is lots of good stuff in it (Eltab, Malkizid, Nodes, Shrines, the Epic spells, Eldreth Veluunthra, the Initiate feats) and very little bad stuff (bland yes, not bad).

I agree that Kezef should have been more powerful. FR is a nice place to develop Epic material, and every opportunity should be pondered wisely, but I am largely content with using the likes of Orcus as the CR benchmark instead of the gods themselves, even if that does not mesh very well with the novels.

Statblock errors are embarrasing for wotc to be sure, but it does not make the material useless IMO.
The only things I truly loathed was the Grey Portrait (homages to great books is nice, but has nothing to do with the setting) and using the E-word when talking about Mulholrand on page 111 (setting material should not not include real-world references, it spoils the illusion).

(Edited for clarity)

 

[MarkAHart]

I got a chance to read "Waterdeep" this weekend, and really liked what I saw. The information on guilds and organizations is extremely well detailed, and I especially liked the quick breakdown tables for buying/reselling items of interest to adventurers, as well as the table about who to see for various specialized skills -- I wish "Sharn, City of Towers" could have been about 60 pages longer to include that sort of in-depth information as well.

I like that the city grows and changes rather than remaining static. Waterdeep has been around long enough in actual years that it has acquired a substantial history in game, and that makes for interesting and enjoyable reading.

All I can say is that Mr. Boyd must have an encyclopedia of Realms lore in his brain, not to mention a rather comprehensive knowledge of the information in the other FR and monster books already published...

 

[iksander]

I'll have to chime in favor of The waterdeep book. And I have ask, were Yolanda Shamat and Ellandra Tolbert From the 2ed Necromancers guide? I have vague memories of the name, but have gotten rid of the majority of my old 2nd edition stuff.

 

[Arnwyn]

My first impression so far is that Eric seems to have met his goal (or come close) - when I first opened it up, I found a bunch of things right away that were new or newly detailed (and I look at all the FR books from the perspective of an "old guard" - I own all the previous Waterdeep, and FR, source material).

 

[Qwillion]

I wanted to thank eric for stopping in and voicing his intent.

I am glad to hear that the book expands on city granting us an expanded section on the churches. I was really worried that it would just be rehash.

Heck as I remeber talking to Schend, the city of splendors lost money everytime they sold one. We will never see their like again.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I got it now. Haven't looked into it too much, but so far, I like what I see.

 

[Swordsage]

All I can say is that Mr. Boyd must have an encyclopedia of Realms lore in his brain, not to mention a rather comprehensive knowledge of the information in the other FR and monster books already published...

Yes and yes are the answers to your speculations. Eric is the First Lorelord of the Realms.

-- The Swordsage

 

[ericlboyd]

I'll have to chime in favor of The waterdeep book. And I have ask, were Yolanda Shamat and Ellandra Tolbert From the 2ed Necromancers guide? I have vague memories of the name, but have gotten rid of the majority of my old 2nd edition stuff.

Good memory. They are indeed sample characters from the Complete Necromancer's Handbook (2e) who were explicitly placed in Waterdeep in that tome. Yolanda was a fairly straightforward port to 3e, and her info combined with Undermountain revisited article by Steven Schend in Dragon #227 or #228 (blanking) formed the basis for where I took the Church of Loviatar in Waterdeep. Ellandra is an interesting character, but she's actually fairly hard to represent as a 3e prestige class ... (or at least I found her to be). I'd be interested to hear alternative suggestions for how to represent her in 3e.

In general, there are very few "new" characters in this version of Waterdeep as I prefer to build on characters mentioned in obscure sources and give them more attention. One exception is the Blue Bear ... he is the son of two fairly obscure characters, but he himself is new.

--Eric

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

waterdeep

I bought this book yesterday, and really like what I've read so far.

The only thing I miss in it is a _big_ map, to put in the middle of the gaming table during city adventures.

Would it be possible for WoTC to put the original map (that was cut up for the maps in the book) up for sale in .PDF format, suitable for printout by those of us with wide-format printers (or at Kinkos)?

-Ken