Way of Iron and Steel (Monk)

[RhaezDaevan]

Way of Iron and Steel
Monks that follow the Way of Iron and Steel practice with weapons as much as they do their bodies until the two are one.

Hands of Iron - Starting when you choose this tradition at 3^rd level you gain proficiency with a martial melee weapon. This weapon becomes a monk weapon for you. In addition, you can spend 1 ki point to gain advantage with a single melee attack.

Lasting Blows - Starting at 6^th level, when you hit with a monk weapon, the target must make a Constitution saving throw. If it fails, the target’s hit point maximum is reduced by an amount equal to the damage taken.

Skin of Steel - Beginning at 11^th level, you gain resistance to slashing, piercing and bludgeoning damage. You may also spend 3 ki points to gain resistance to all damage for 1 minute.

One with Iron and Steel - 17^th level you become one with your monk weapons. Monk weapon attacks made by you are also treated as unarmed strikes and vice versa. In addition, those who succeed on the Constitution saving throw from your Lasting Blows feature take extra damage equal to your Wisdom modifier.

So, thoughts? It's a bit bland compared to the PHB traditions, but that's OK as weapons can't compare to magical abilities. My main concern is that it's over or underpowered. Since Martial Arts has the same effect as Finesse, without actually granting it, I'm even considering allowing Hands of Iron to work with two-handed weapons too. Not sure yet.

 

[erf_beto]

Cool concept.

I'm not a Monk expert, but off the top of my head, Lasting Blow should say how many times per turn (if more than once) it can trigger. I'd be concerned about sloggin play due to excessive die rolls, for a benefit that will only see effect when there's an enemy healer present (before 17th level).

 

[jadrax]

I don't see why thematically you would exclude two-handed weapons. Martial Artists are renowned for using all manor of exotic-pole arms.

 

[RhaezDaevan]

Cool concept.

I'm not a Monk expert, but off the top of my head, Lasting Blow should say how many times per turn (if more than once) it can trigger. I'd be concerned about sloggin play due to excessive die rolls, for a benefit that will only see effect when there's an enemy healer present (before 17th level).

Not just enemies that have healer allies, but also monsters with regeneration. The point of it is that you strike them in such a way that they can't properly heal themselves. If you have another idea for an ability that would be a good replacement then please share.

 

[RhaezDaevan]

I don't see why thematically you would exclude two-handed weapons. Martial Artists are renowned for using all manor of exotic-pole arms.

I edited my post so that you can pick any martial melee weapon.

 

[Khaalis]

Hey, just a few quick thoughts.

Hands of Iron - I would almost say this should simply give proficiency in martial weapons and then choose 1 of them to be a monk weapon. Yes all, considering that cleric domains at 1st give either Heavy Armor Prof or HAP + Martial Weapon Proficiency. This would give the more war monk feel and allows the monk to be proficient in anythng he picks up but only Specialized (as a monk weapon) in one weapon.

As for spending the Ki, this should trigger as some form of action. Normally Ki abilities take an action but in this case it should be Bonus Action or Reaction or perhaps state "when making an attack action".

Lasting Blows - I see the point to this ability, but as mentioned it has pretty limited use only against healer foes and regnerators. I'd perhaps do something like CON save or be Incapacitated until the end of your next turn.

Skin of Steel Too powerful considering this is a level 17 War Cleric ability (and is restricted to nonmagical weapons). Perhaps as a Reaction spend Ki to gain resistance for 1 type of damage:
1 Ki = lasts for turns equal to WIS mod
or
3 Ki = lasts for 1 minute

One with Iron and Steel I may be wrong but I thought "Martial Arts" already defines Unarmed Strikes and Monk Weapons as interchangable.

So here, I would move Skin of Steel to level 17 and make it the same as the Cleric 17 ability.

That just means finding a substitute level 11 ability. Since this is a weapon focused monk it should probably revolve around weapon use.Since I'm on the way out the door I dont have time to come up with much but some really basic ideas...
* An ability that deals extra damage in the same way as Cleric Divine Strike?
* Improved Crit?
* Access to a Fighter Fighting Style? *Probably the one I'd go with since this is a sort of Fighter MC subclass*

Hope that helps.


EDIT
The more I look into this the more I now believe that "unarmed strike" and "monk weapon" are two separate distinctions. However, with that said I don't think "monk weapons" should be swapped in for "unarmed strikes" when relating to the monk's special abilities as it defeats the entire purpose of the monk getting an improving unarmed strike.

Even on a weapon adept monk, unarmed strikes should remain just that. For instance "Flurry of Blows" shouldn't make you be able to deal 3 "weapon" attacks, but instead it does 1 "weapon" attack and 2 "unarmed strikes".

I've also been looking over ancient Asian (inc. near-Asian such as India, Persia, etc.) weaponry used in "monk-like" fighting styles such as Shoalin and Kalaripayat, and support for granting "Martial Weapons". The only one that might be an "exception" is Lance as it has no "martial arts" weapon equivalent.

 

[Khaalis]

EDIT
Here is the subclass build I'm looking at using as my incarnation of the concept (basing this on the Weapon Adept monk archetype).


WAY OF STEEL
While all monks train in both unarmed combat and with monk weapons, monks of the Way of Steel are often chosen from amongst early students that show a more martial demeanor than the placid ways taught in most monasteries. As such they are often taken to more martial oriented monasteries that train more for true battle than many other monks where they seek to become familiar with the use of many weapons used in war. During their training, each monk of the Way of Steel chooses one weapon of war with which to specialize in and learn to make it an extension of their own body.

Student of Steel
Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you gain proficiency with martial weapons (except Lance). Choose one martial melee weapon, which becomes a monk weapon for you.
Additionally, when you use the attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 ki point to gain one of the following effects:

• Cause your unarmed or monk weapon attacks to score a critical hit on a roll of a 19 or 20.
• Cause your unarmed or monk weapon attacks to deal additional damage equal to your Wisdom modifier.

Lasting Blows
Starting at 6th level, your unarmed strikes land like steel against your enemy's ki chakras. Whenever you hit a creature with one of he attacks granted by your Flurry of Blows, you can impose one of the following effects on that target:

• It must success a Constitution saving throw or be Incapacitated until the end of your next turn.
• Deal 1d4 additional damage and it is distracted with pain. The next attack roll against the target by an attacker other than you has advantage if the attack is made before the start of your next turn.
• It can't take reactions until the end of your next turn.

Student of War
Beginning at 11th level, you can choose one of the options from the Fighter's Fighting Style class feature.

Skin of Steel
At 17th level, you gain resistance to bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage from nonmagical weapons.


Thoughts?

 

[RhaezDaevan]

Hey, just a few quick thoughts.

Hands of Iron - I would almost say this should simply give proficiency in martial weapons and then choose 1 of them to be a monk weapon. Yes all, considering that cleric domains at 1st give either Heavy Armor Prof or HAP + Martial Weapon Proficiency. This would give the more war monk feel and allows the monk to be proficient in anythng he picks up but only Specialized (as a monk weapon) in one weapon.

As for spending the Ki, this should trigger as some form of action. Normally Ki abilities take an action but in this case it should be Bonus Action or Reaction or perhaps state "when making an attack action".

Lasting Blows - I see the point to this ability, but as mentioned it has pretty limited use only against healer foes and regnerators. I'd perhaps do something like CON save or be Incapacitated until the end of your next turn.

Skin of Steel Too powerful considering this is a level 17 War Cleric ability (and is restricted to nonmagical weapons). Perhaps as a Reaction spend Ki to gain resistance for 1 type of damage:
1 Ki = lasts for turns equal to WIS mod
or
3 Ki = lasts for 1 minute

One with Iron and Steel I may be wrong but I thought "Martial Arts" already defines Unarmed Strikes and Monk Weapons as interchangable.

So here, I would move Skin of Steel to level 17 and make it the same as the Cleric 17 ability.

That just means finding a substitute level 11 ability. Since this is a weapon focused monk it should probably revolve around weapon use.Since I'm on the way out the door I dont have time to come up with much but some really basic ideas...
* An ability that deals extra damage in the same way as Cleric Divine Strike?
* Improved Crit?
* Access to a Fighter Fighting Style? *Probably the one I'd go with since this is a sort of Fighter MC subclass*

Hope that helps.


EDIT
The more I look into this the more I now believe that "unarmed strike" and "monk weapon" are two separate distinctions. However, with that said I don't think "monk weapons" should be swapped in for "unarmed strikes" when relating to the monk's special abilities as it defeats the entire purpose of the monk getting an improving unarmed strike.

Even on a weapon adept monk, unarmed strikes should remain just that. For instance "Flurry of Blows" shouldn't make you be able to deal 3 "weapon" attacks, but instead it does 1 "weapon" attack and 2 "unarmed strikes".

I've also been looking over ancient Asian (inc. near-Asian such as India, Persia, etc.) weaponry used in "monk-like" fighting styles such as Shoalin and Kalaripayat, and support for granting "Martial Weapons". The only one that might be an "exception" is Lance as it has no "martial arts" weapon equivalent.

I think you've misinterpreted what I was going for. This started with the idea of a Monk who uses their weapon so much that it becomes a part of them. I'm going to disagree on Flurry of Blows. This subclass should be able to swap out unarmed strikes for weapon attacks as that's the point. Your unarmed strikes and weapon attacks are one and the same. You are your weapon at that point. Perhaps I should have described it better. All monk weapons use the unarmed strike damage anyway unless it's lower, so the only a few two-handed weapons will surpass it and it's the subclass' capstone ability so will only affect the last few levels anyway.

The resistance to weapon damages also plays into this, though perhaps adding in that it only works versus non-magical attacks like you mentioned would bring it down enough. I don't think you should compare a single ability of one class to another single ability of a different class without taking into consideration all the other abilities both classes get. Clerics get spellcasting, so a Monk (one without spells to boot) getting a similar ability at a lower level is fine.

I will agree that Lasting Blows should be changed and I'll take your suggestions as possible replacements.

 

[RhaezDaevan]

EDIT
Here is the subclass build I'm looking at using as my incarnation of the concept (basing this on the Weapon Adept monk archetype).


WAY OF STEEL
While all monks train in both unarmed combat and with monk weapons, monks of the Way of Steel are often chosen from amongst early students that show a more martial demeanor than the placid ways taught in most monasteries. As such they are often taken to more martial oriented monasteries that train more for true battle than many other monks where they seek to become familiar with the use of many weapons used in war. During their training, each monk of the Way of Steel chooses one weapon of war with which to specialize in and learn to make it an extension of their own body.

Student of Steel
Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you gain proficiency with martial weapons (except Lance). Choose one martial melee weapon, which becomes a monk weapon for you.
Additionally, when you use the attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 ki point to gain one of the following effects:

• Cause your unarmed or monk weapon attacks to score a critical hit on a roll of a 19 or 20.
• Cause your unarmed or monk weapon attacks to deal additional damage equal to your Wisdom modifier.

Lasting Blows
Starting at 6th level, your unarmed strikes land like steel against your enemy's ki chakras. Whenever you hit a creature with one of he attacks granted by your Flurry of Blows, you can impose one of the following effects on that target:

• It must success a Constitution saving throw or be Incapacitated until the end of your next turn.
• Deal 1d4 additional damage and it is distracted with pain. The next attack roll against the target by an attacker other than you has advantage if the attack is made before the start of your next turn.
• It can't take reactions until the end of your next turn.

Student of War
Beginning at 11th level, you can choose one of the options from the Fighter's Fighting Style class feature.

Skin of Steel
At 17th level, you gain resistance to bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage from nonmagical weapons.


Thoughts?

Student of Steel and your version of Lasting Blows are nice improvements, but I'll stick with tweaked versions of the abilities I wrote for the other two. Student of War is boring for a high level ability and I think Skin of Steel was fine at 11th as this subclass should get more than 3 levels of use out of it.

 

[Khaalis]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I'll be keeping my my version. Wish I could have helped more for yours.