D&D 5E [+] Ways to fix the caster / non-caster gap

[Crimson Longinus]

What's wrong with it is that it kinda soft-caps the game at around 10th level for those who don't want supers in their fantasy, or their games' PCs to become, in effect, playable demigods.

Why is that a problem? And I really don't see point of levelling if it doesn't affect the scope of the characters' capabilities.

 

[Vaalingrade]

You know, if we were allowed to have official content that wasn't as middle of the road as possible, there could be a supplement for low power games and high power games. But you can't sell both to everyone, so we're left with barely heroic material that some people call superheroic because that's the new negative buzzword due to being the thing other people like.

 

[Lanefan]

As was done by Gygax. Who of course literally called PCs superheroes. (Level 8 fighting man IIRC)

I never put much stock in the level titles.

And yes, 1e was soft-capped at 9th but remained playable for a few levels after that, collapsing at about 12th.

5e, if it wants to be a 20-level game, needs to make 20th level about as powerful as 1e name-level. Then, for thems as wants it, come up with an optional epic-level system for 21st and beyond.

 

[TwoSix]

I never put much stock in the level titles.

And yes, 1e was soft-capped at 9th but remained playable for a few levels after that, collapsing at about 12th.

5e, if it wants to be a 20-level game, needs to make 20th level about as powerful as 1e name-level. Then, for thems as wants it, come up with an optional epic-level system for 21st and beyond.

"Needs" is doing an awful lot of work there.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I never put much stock in the level titles.

And yes, 1e was soft-capped at 9th but remained playable for a few levels after that, collapsing at about 12th.

So same than 5e then!

5e, if it wants to be a 20-level game, needs to make 20th level about as powerful as 1e name-level. Then, for thems as wants it, come up with an optional epic-level system for 21st and beyond.

Nah. You don't need twenty levels of mundanity. We can start to get epic somewhere around level 12.

 

[Tony Vargas]

For everything they gained compared to 3.X they lost something

It seems like each new edition is aware that fighters are lacking, and casters are frustrating, and tries to correct that, by trying to give the fighter something different than what it had last ed (you don't need extra attacks, have 'high' BAB & iterative attacks!)(you don't need higher BAB, have marking!)(marking just gets you hit, have Extra Attack back)(isn't it great how the fighter has advanced the last 40 years?) and removing restrictions from casters (did we say you needed to stand up right and have both hands free, we meant just one hand free)(did we say your spell was ruined and lost, we meant make a concentration check or the casting is ruined, you still keep spell)(did we say concentration check, we meant as long as you survive the OA the spell goes off)(did we say OA, we meant cast spells in melee with no risk or downside at all)

 

[Gammadoodler]

Lowering the overall power level of the game would be fantastic!

This ain't the MCU.

Beginning of Thor: Ragnarok

Opening..

"Oh no..Thor's in a cage" (underground with another skeletal prisoner..wait...is this a Dungeon(tm)?)

Is confronted by a giant..wisecracks a bit with said giant..before breaking out of chains. Fights a bunch of mooks..and then what's that??

A Dragon(tm)!!

He runs away for a bit but is caught, and is forced to slay the beast with his magic hammer

..And this isn't the gameplay we want out of the Dungeons & Dragons RPG?

Edit: the more times I compare the Thor movies to D&D, the more I think MCU Asgard should be the model folks should use when designing a D&D setting. It even featured evil elves in it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

This seems to be seriously drifting from the "we shouldn't have attack cantrips just because kids like it and it makes Ha$bro money" topic.

If it must exist, I'd rather it be an optional rule, yes. Just my preference.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I know you've been on a relatively long hiatus, but to briefly summarize, my observation is that Micah generally believes that WotC/Hasbro has been a terrible steward of the D&D property (in terms of respect for tradition, not fiduciary) and would generally be relieved if they stopped publishing material all together, such that the community would move on from their dependence on official WotC material.

That is my belief, yes. Especially since Tasha's.

 

[Raiztt]

Why is that a problem? And I really don't see point of levelling if it doesn't affect the scope of the characters' capabilities.

The question isn't whether or not leveling "affects the scope of the characters' capabilities" - that should be true regardless of low power or high power fantasy. It's a question of where a given table would ideally draw the line/end of advancement.