D&D 5E [+] Ways to fix the caster / non-caster gap

[TwoSix]

no, they just tend to fix it by nerfing the caster, not by buffing the martials to superhuman levels.

Both are perfectly acceptable solutions for the issue

I also have a strong preference for nerfing casters over buffing martials, but that's because I also have a strong preference for diegetic progression of character abilities instead of metagame-derived progression.

 

[TwoSix]

That brings up an interesting point, are Dark Sun humans, humans? When the setting was created, they each had at least one innate psychic ability and their maximum ability scores in each category were 2 above what they were in the PHB. If WotC actually did make a 5e Dark Sun and were like "yeah, so, roll 4d4+4 for each ability score, and the cap is 22, oh and roll for a psionic wild talent", could we still claim that these are humans bound to normal human limitations?

To my mind, they're humans within the context of what human means within that specific fiction. The definition of "human" is not a constant that can cross between fictional universes.

Edit: Think of Superman. Superman looks like a human, acts like a human, has pretty much identical cognitive processes as a human, and can even successfully cross-breed with humans. But no one calls him a human, because he comes from a different planet and has magical powers. Why is Superman an alien and Elminster of Faerun is a human, outside of the genre conceits?

 

[billd91]

Not being able to shoot fire from my brain seems like a pretty big limitation.

Seems like that would be one of those genre convention exceptions that I already called out.

 

[mamba]

For a giant to function they would need some new form of matter completely unknown to science. No metals we know of would allow a human-sized mecha to exist alone, yet alone a biological material. The bipedal body plan humans use is bad at big sizes. Really bad.

Still barking up the realism tree I see… tell you what, when you have removed all magic from the game because it is not realistic, I consider removing giants and dragons too, until then…

 

[mamba]

I read an article once upon a time talking about Kaiju and other giant monsters, where it was stated these creatures would need skeletons as tough as diamond to exist. If magic isn't involved, you'd think people would be killing giant monsters to use their bones as building materials more often!

if only they weren’t so hard to kill

Also, as hard as diamond makes for awful building material, you cannot really work with it

 

[Gammadoodler]

Depends on what you consider a limitation. I'd say that it is a tacit assumption that, barring rule-based exceptions/abstractions and genre conventions (like the potential to learn to cast magic), game humans are pretty much Earth humans - just somewhat gamified. If there wasn't that assumption - it would be kind of weird to call them humans.

Tbh it is kind if weird to call them humans in light of the many many many many ways that they can differ in their abilities within a D&D setting..

Should have called them Terrans or something.

 

[TwoSix]

Seems like that would be one of those genre convention exceptions that I already called out.

Exactly. And my entire argument is that "humans are humans, except for one "physics-shattering exception" is a really strong genre assumption to make, unless it's very explicitly called out by the source text.

I mean, we have in-game examples of where hard work and training will let you shoot fire from your brain (wizard and monk). Why is fighter the only one limited to Earthly reality in terms of what hard work and training will allow him to accomplish?

 

[billd91]

Tbh it is kind if weird to call them humans in light of the many many many many ways that they can differ in their abilities within a D&D setting..

Should have called them Terrans or something.

It wouldn't have made a difference considering we're also Terrans anyway. Traveller went the route of calling the Solomani - still humans and assumed to be the same humans as us, just as viewed through that game and setting. You want something with even more extreme ways of having humans with differing abilities, check out a superhero genre game. Humans are still humans though.

Games just have different ways of handling humans - doesn't mean that they aren't all assumed to be humans like us - just us as filtered through the game.

 

[mamba]

That brings up an interesting point, are Dark Sun humans, humans? When the setting was created, they each had at least one innate psychic ability and their maximum ability scores in each category were 2 above what they were in the PHB. If WotC actually did make a 5e Dark Sun and were like "yeah, so, roll 4d4+4 for each ability score, and the cap is 22, oh and roll for a psionic wild talent", could we still claim that these are humans bound to normal human limitations?

depends on where you draw the line… they cannot levitate at will or something, but if their STR ends up being 22, they can lift more than ‘normal’ humans. If their STR is 15 however, they can lift as much as any other STR 15 human

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Exactly. And my entire argument is that "humans are humans, except for one "physics-shattering exception" is a really strong genre assumption to make, unless it's very explicitly called out by the source text.

I mean, we have in-game examples of where hard work and training will let you shoot fire from your brain (wizard and monk). Why is fighter the only one limited to Earthly reality in terms of what hard work and training will allow him to accomplish?

Right. And I have no issue with the assumption that the basic commoners and the like in the setting are roughly Terran humans. But this is a fantastic world where mythic heroes exist, and it is not uncommon in stories about the mythic heroes them to do things that no real human could.