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Message: <blockquote data-quote="rushlight" data-source="post: 260357" data-attributes="member: 3801">"Point 1) If the last attack isn't a big deal to get from a wish because the attack itself is so worthless, then you won't care if you don't get it, right? I mean, if it's so trivial, what does it matter?"Well, I can't presume to speak for the player, but perhaps that's the way he envisions his character.  Maybe he thinks his character is some sort of Legolas type guy, and that's what he was looking for.  Or perhaps he just likes rolling the dice.  More likely he had planned on getting his 4th attack on his 21st level and just found out that it wasn't possible by the ELH rules, and was looking for another way to get it.  Any way it goes, it isn't all that big of a deal.  I think that the 4th attack IS trivial.  In fact, from my experience (and I've been playing 3e since it came out) the last attack (when you get several attacks) hits about 10% of the time, regardless of level.  "Point 2) If getting that +1 BAB increase is more important to you than your character and all of your character's amazing accomplishments that all culminated into him becoming powerful to epic proportions, something to be proud of, you've lost sight or you didn't have it to begin with."I don't know if you are directly involved in the game in question, but unless you are the player in question I don't think you can tell if he's "lost sight".  Each of us plays D&D for different reasons, and there is no "correct" path in the game.  The only important question is this:  Does the +1 BAB imbalance the game?  Personally I think that at 1st level it might be.  At 21st level not at all.  There's so many ways to counter +1 BAB at 21st level it's mind boggling.  Last, you said: ", your last attack is at -15 so granting it from wish must be perfectly reasonable, right? Well, if it isn't a big deal because the last attack is so worthless, then why complain about it in the first place? Would you like to know why? Because, you know, I know, we all know, that 20 levels from now, that last attack won't be so worthless."Well, let's examine that.  Say our guy gets his +1 BAB and advances to level 41 (20 levels from now).  I don't know the detals of character so I'll make some reasonable assumptions.  He probably had a dex of around 22 at 21st level.  Assume he increased his dex at every chance (every other epic level I believe).  That gives him a bonus of +11.  He's probably got a +5 (it might go higher in the ELH, I'm not sure).  Let's not forget his "Epic bonus" to hit of +10.  Let's see, that's +1 BAB (the gimme), +11 dex, +10 Epic bonus, and +5 weapon.  Let's give him a +20 "circumstance" bonus to cover whatever else might be going on.  That's a final attack bonus of +47 to attack, assuming my public school math holds up.  Alright, that's alot.  Let's see what that can do.  Looking through the ELH I found a monster comparably even to a 41st level party: the Mature Adult Prismatic Dragon with a CR of 43.  A few higher but close enough.  It has an AC of 71!  That means our massive attack of +47 still needs a roll of 20 to even have a chance! (Assuming of course that you play natural 20 always hits.  If you don't then you still missed, having only an attack of 67...)  Spending 5000 XP for a 5% chance to thwack something isn't unbalancing in my book.  Of course all this changes if you aren't fighting monsters of comparable CR.  If all you are doing is hunting down peasants, owlbears and kobalds at 21st (or 41st) level then I think the campagain has more issues than just a +1 BAB.  Put simply, when fighting a monster of comparable CR, you should have around a 50% chance to hit with stats and weapons and other bonues figured in.  When you subtract 15 from that roll, almost every time your chance to hit drops to 5 or 10%.  Personally, I wouldn't spend 5000 XP for a 5% chance to hit, not if I was level 10, 21 or 51.  Let's face it, this player isn't looking for some extreme advantage and the math bears that out.  It seems like he has a vision of his guy and he's trying to achieve it.</blockquote>

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