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ways to increase BAB other other than leveling

Izod

First Post
one of my party members is level 20 and is one point away from having 4 normal attacks. He asked me if I knew of any way to get one more point... because once you get to epic levels your BAB never goes up. He sugested using a wish to change one of his wiz levels for a ranger level. BTW he is an arcane archer by trade. also is it posiable to get an iten that would rais your BAB by one. this doesn't seen too powerful an item but I would like to know what you think.
 

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Crothian

First Post
Items don't increase BAB, that would be to powerful. Personally, he should have thought about this before he got to level 20. The only way I'd allow it is through a wish. The wish wouldn't be to switch out a level of Wizard for Ranger. Too easy. He'd have to wish himself down a wizard level and that would place him at 19th level. Then he'd have to earn his way to 20th level again.

The reason not to allow a magic item to do it is because a cleric, druid, rogue, bard, wizard, or sorcer would have a huge advantage. All they each need is +1 BAB at level 20 to gain an additional attack. To easily abused and not fair to everone else.
 

Archer

First Post
Easier than making a wish is letting epic levels increase your BAB so fighters get 5 attacks, clerics get 4 and wizards get 3. Epic challenges are staggeringly difficult enough that an extra attack at -5 below their worst attack is going to be all that gamebreaking.
 

Izod

First Post
he should have thought about this before he got to level 20

Normally I would agree with you on this one but as he didn't know that BAB doesn't go up afret 20, and the fact that we have been playing these chars for almost 2 years I find it kind of hard to fault him here.

He'd have to wish himself down a wizard level and that would place him at 19th level. Then he'd have to earn his way to 20th level again.

Again we have been playing these chars for a long time and I'm not going to punish him for not knowing what the rule of the new book is. the worst thing I would do to him is say no you can do that.
 

Dr. Zoom

First Post
That's part of the trade-off when you multiclass. Also, I don't have the book, but I heard that BAB for epic levels does increase, just at a slower rate. I may be wrong.
 

The spells Divine Might and Tenser's Transformation both increase your BAB. Perhaps he could spend a wish to find out how to create an item with one of those spells.

Gauntlet of Prowess.
This single golden gauntlet instinctively gives even the greenest farm boy some skill in fighting. The Gauntlet adds +1 to BAB, giving all of the benefits of a higher BAB whever it is worn. However, this item does come at some cost, while it is worn the user cannot cast spell or use spell completion items.
5,000 gp, Tenser's Transformation, Craft Wonderous Item
 

LostSoul

First Post
Why not keep track of experience gained, and when he gains enough to hit level 21 (210, 000 I think), let him switch a level into a new one.

It doesn't make sense that, at level 20, you can't ever learn anything new again.
 

Arravis

First Post
I do agree that it seems unfair that he cannot gain a single point of BAB. Would adding +1 BAB be possible through a relic or a artifact? And I wholey agree that he shouldn't be punished for not having thought out his entire 1-20 level progression AND for not knowing what was in a book that wasn't published until just yesterday. Give me a break. How meta can you be.
 

wallshot

First Post
just a note about the epic progression, U gain an epic +1 attack bonus every odd level. they didnt raise BAB b/c after a while U could have fighters with 6 or 7 hits, and how would you like to be the party wizard waiting on the sidelines as the fighter rolls all 7 of his attacks and after he is done with great cleave attempts, there is nothing left for yor automatic quickened fireball?
 

Garmorn

Explorer
Izod said:


Normally I would agree with you on this one but as he didn't know that BAB doesn't go up afret 20, and the fact that we have been playing these chars for almost 2 years I find it kind of hard to fault him here.



Again we have been playing these chars for a long time and I'm not going to punish him for not knowing what the rule of the new book is. the worst thing I would do to him is say no you can do that.


This is a very good time to just house rule it and allow a one time exception. If you have a group that has played this long and is at or near 20th level, the odds are all of them are going to have at least one thing that will be inconflict or need adjusting. Just do it and not worry about it.

Or give them a special quest and allow them each a single one time expection for completing the quest. Just had wave the reasoning and all will be fine.
 

I was under the impression that your BAB does continue to rise, you simply don't gain more attacks from it whenever it breaches a number divisable by five. A fighter could have a 30/25/20/15, but not gain the 10 or 5 that would have come after it at lower levels.
 

wallshot

First Post
Jondor_Battlehammer said:
I was under the impression that your BAB does continue to rise, you simply don't gain more attacks from it whenever it breaches a number divisable by five. A fighter could have a 30/25/20/15, but not gain the 10 or 5 that would have come after it at lower levels.

They dont call it BAB after level 20. It becomes an epic bonus to attack. That way it doesnt conflict with the BAB extra attacks rule.
If U read my earlier post in this thread it explains why they did it that way.
 

Consider adding a house rule for epic characters -- characters determine their base attack bonus according to their "best" 20 class levels. That way, warrior-types and monks still have a monopoly on having lots of attacks, but if your cleric or rogue really wants more attacks, he can do it with some (slightly) painful multiclassing.
 

Crothian

First Post
You have to remeber BAB is one of the things used to balance the classes. All classes that don't get the best BAB arrive at level 20 one BAB short of an extra attack. Basically, you'll hinder the fighter types by allowing this extra attacks to be given to the other classes.

However, as it is ultimately up to the DM and they can rule 0 as they see fit. :cool:
 

Izod

First Post
You have to remeber BAB is one of the things used to balance the classes. All classes that don't get the best BAB arrive at level 20 one BAB short of an extra attack. Basically, you'll hinder the fighter types by allowing this extra attacks to be given to the other classes.

Well this char is an arcane archer. they are fighter types and because of the way he leveled through the first few levels he wasn't able to get to BAB of 16. We aren't talking about a BAB of 25 or anything :)
 

Xeriar

First Post
Izod said:
one of my party members is level 20 and is one point away from having 4 normal attacks. He asked me if I knew of any way to get one more point... because once you get to epic levels your BAB never goes up. He sugested using a wish to change one of his wiz levels for a ranger level. BTW he is an arcane archer by trade. also is it posiable to get an iten that would rais your BAB by one. this doesn't seen too powerful an item but I would like to know what you think.

My personal opinion is that this is one of the most moronic design decisions WotC made. Monsters keep gaining BAB, but PCs don't - it makes no sense.

Just cap attacks from BAB at 4, and tweak the non-fighter epics a bit. That's all you need to do.
 

Xeriar

First Post
Crothian said:
You have to remeber BAB is one of the things used to balance the classes. All classes that don't get the best BAB arrive at level 20 one BAB short of an extra attack. Basically, you'll hinder the fighter types by allowing this extra attacks to be given to the other classes.

However, as it is ultimately up to the DM and they can rule 0 as they see fit. :cool:

Monk 20/Sorcerer 20

vs.

Sorcerer 20/Monk 20

Assuming identical stats, feats, skills, spells and equipment, who wins?

The player who took sorcerer first is screwed. EAB is a rube goldberg solution to a problem that they fix the right way for monsters - just cap the attacks at 4.
 

Kai Lord

Explorer
Izod said:
one of my party members is level 20 and is one point away from having 4 normal attacks. He asked me if I knew of any way to get one more point... because once you get to epic levels your BAB never goes up. He sugested using a wish to change one of his wiz levels for a ranger level. BTW he is an arcane archer by trade. also is it posiable to get an iten that would rais your BAB by one. this doesn't seen too powerful an item but I would like to know what you think.

That's easy, just kill him. He'll come back one level lower, and can replace it with a level of ranger. :cool:
 


doktorstick

First Post
Xeriar said:
Monk 20/Sorcerer 20 vs. Sorcerer 20/Monk 20

Assuming identical stats, feats, skills, spells and equipment, who wins?

The player who took sorcerer first is screwed. EAB is a rube goldberg solution to a problem that they fix the right way for monsters - just cap the attacks at 4.

That is a poor example. In most cases (and that is what rules try to cover, most cases), the Mnk 20/Sor20 is going to be a better fighter and worst magic user than the Sor20/Mnk20 who will be the better magic user and worse fighter. The reason is that character progressing as either one of the primary classes will be developed towards that class.

/ds
 

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