Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="rushlight" data-source="post: 268839" data-attributes="member: 3801">"This point was covered already. That fourth attack at +1 (without bonuses) may not matter now. But in 20 levels, that extra attack will be +21 (without bonuses). "This is true.  But had you actually read my reply to this point, you would have seen:"Well, let's examine that. Say our guy gets his +1 BAB and advances to level 41 (20 levels from now). I don't know the detals of character so I'll make some reasonable assumptions. He probably had a dex of around 22 at 21st level. Assume he increased his dex at every chance (every other epic level I believe). That gives him a bonus of +11. He's probably got a +5 (it might go higher in the ELH, I'm not sure). Let's not forget his "Epic bonus" to hit of +10. Let's see, that's +1 BAB (the gimme), +11 dex, +10 Epic bonus, and +5 weapon. Let's give him a +20 "circumstance" bonus to cover whatever else might be going on. That's a final attack bonus of +47 to attack, assuming my public school math holds up. Alright, that's alot. Let's see what that can do. Looking through the ELH I found a monster comparably even to a 41st level party: the Mature Adult Prismatic Dragon with a CR of 43. A few higher but close enough. It has an AC of 71! That means our massive attack of +47 still needs a roll of 20 to even have a chance! (Assuming of course that you play natural 20 always hits. If you don't then you still missed, having only an attack of 67...) "So you can see that the argument that in 20 more levels it makes a difference.  It doesn't, because while you gain 20 levels of more power, the monsters you should be fighting have also gained 20 levels or more of power.  And thus your 4th iterative attack will still miss 95% of the time, or more.  The argument that gaining levels will allow the +1 to become relevant is spurious logic, and false.  When your guy is 180th level, and has a 4th attack of +81 or so, the monsters you'll be fighting will probably have an AC of 120 or so...  That's because the scaling of the CRs works very well.  Reguardless of your level, the first attack is your most powerful.  Those attacks that follow become less and less useful, until your last attack is almost asured to miss."If it isn't such a big deal, then why fuss about it? "Good question.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  To tell the truth, I would never do this, and as a GM I would point out that it makes almost no difference at all to the game, and thus not worth 5000 XP.  Players don't always do what makes sense though, and really a GM should usually try to accomodate his players if it doesn't affect game balance.  This is just personal opinion, but I don't think a GM should shoot down an idea just because it causes them more work or makes things different that the exact letter of the book.  Sometimes it's OK to just toss out the books and oblige a player.  Especially when doing so makes no difference to the game.Oh, and I forgot to give an example as to how to word the Wish.As long as I didn't have a GM who was just going to hose me because I was making a Wish that wasn't on the approved list I'd word it this way:I Wish I my innate ability to fight was better so that I would be good enough to get more strikes in during combat.Now, sure you could say that this gives you some sort of additional bonus to attack as opposed to BAB, but BAB is the only "innate" attacking ability which doesn't change with weapon, circumstance, or method of attack (ranged vs melee).Besides, you COULD just reward the Wish "I Wish I was smarter!" with an extra spell point as opposed to the +1 to INT.  Obviously the INT bonus is the one sought, just like the BAB bonus is the one sought in tthe previous Wish.</blockquote>

Verification