Ways to reduce Arcane Spell Failure

[Patlin]

Knight Phantom prestige class (among others, of course) allows casting in light armor with no ASF.

 

[hackmastergeneral]

corrolary to this, a question came up at my last gaming session:

If a Warmage, fr'ex, has Armoured Mage (Light), and goes up to Armoured Mage (Medium) does he still incure the to-hit penalty for wearing heavier armour than he has a proficiency with? Warmages only ever get Light Armor Proficiency - do I have to burn a feat to get Medium Armor proficiency to take advantage of a class feature?

 

[Musrum]

This is completely false--one cannot take a feat and only meet the prereq circularly with the feat itself.

Others disagree:

A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she
gains the prerequisite.

The check on the feat prerequisite is the last step in the level advancement check list.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

Others disagree:.

LOL, what bunk. You cannot choose a feat unless you meet the prerequisites. End of story.

 

[hong]

Why are you wearing physical armour when you have mage armour?

 

[Sound of Azure]

Others disagree:

PHB 3.5e p. 87
A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she
gains the prerequisite..

The check on the feat prerequisite is the last step in the level advancement check list.

You still need to meet the prerequisite in order to take the feat in the first place!

If a Warmage, fr'ex, has Armoured Mage (Light), and goes up to Armoured Mage (Medium) does he still incure the to-hit penalty for wearing heavier armour than he has a proficiency with? Warmages only ever get Light Armor Proficiency - do I have to burn a feat to get Medium Armor proficiency to take advantage of a class feature?

Yes. Armoured Casting and similar abilities (as well as the Battle Caster feat, which improves such abilities) don't help with Armour Check penalties, only Arcane spell failure. Therefore the example character would still get the to-hit penalty from medium and heavy armour, at least until he gained proficiency in heavier amours.

Armoured Casting also doesn't help with shields.

So, you'd need to burn a feat, or take a level in a class that grants at least medium armour proficiency in order to negate such penalties. Either that, or wear mithral medium armour, or any armour with the Lightweight enchantment (which makes the armour Light).

 

[Musrum]

LOL, what bunk. You cannot choose a feat unless you meet the prerequisites. End of story.

Actually no. You can choose any feat you like, it is only at then end off the level up process that you check that you have met the prereq(s).

eg: Human Ftr4/Rng1 with Point Blank Shot levels to Ranger 2.

At Step 7 he chooses his level 6 feat: Manyshot
At Step 9 he picks up his class feature: Combat Style (Rapid Shot).

And last thing: he checks the preqs on Manyshot:
Dex 17 - Check! (with his Gloves of DEX)
Point Blank Shot - Check!
BAB +6 - Check!
Rapid Shot - Check! -> Even though he got this feat after he selected Manyshot.

All legal. All good...

 

[Sound of Azure]

Level advancement

7. Feats: Upon attaining 3rd level and at every 3rd level thereafter (6th, 9th, and so forth), the character gain one feat of your choice (see Table 5-1: Feats, page 90). The character must meet any prerequisites for the feat in order to select it. As with ability score increases, it is the overall character level, not the class level, that determines when a character gains a new feat.

Emphasis mine.

You need to meet the prerequisite when you are taking the feat, not at the end of the levelling up process. That's why they're called prerequisites, and not postrequisites.

In the case of Battle Caster, if you haven't don't already have "the ability to ignore arcane spell failure chance from armour" (its prerequisite) before you take the feat, you cannot take the feat.

Besides which, I don't believe the list of things to change on pages 58 and 59 are an order of processes, merely a list of things to alter as you level up.

 

[sirwmholder]

Actually no. You can choose any feat you like, it is only at then end off the level up process that you check that you have met the prereq(s).

eg: Human Ftr4/Rng1 with Point Blank Shot levels to Ranger 2.

At Step 7 he chooses his level 6 feat: Manyshot
At Step 9 he picks up his class feature: Combat Style (Rapid Shot).

And last thing: he checks the preqs on Manyshot:
Dex 17 - Check! (with his Gloves of DEX)
Point Blank Shot - Check!
BAB +6 - Check!
Rapid Shot - Check! -> Even though he got this feat after he selected Manyshot.

All legal. All good...

Things like this is why we have house ruled that you can not move up a feat tree more than one step per level... however back on topic... I would agree that you could do this as per the RAW but I would strongly disagree that you can take a feat to meet it's own prerequisite... otherwise the prereq was pointless and I do not believe that is the case.

Thank you for your time,
William Holder

 

[RangerWickett]

Every mage who can afford one should have a magical mithral buckler. 26,000gp gets you +6 AC with no spell failure chance.