Ways to Track Dying

[klofft]

I'm looking for insights on the table experience of HP -1 to -9. We play RAW and don't have any problems with it. We don't think people die too quickly or too slowly. But our group HAS noticed a "role-playing/roll-playing" problem with the rules.

Our group exclusively plays heroic characters. So when a party member goes down, the battle tactics automatically switch to getting to the wounded and healing him or rescuing him. The problem with that is this change in tactics has occasionally led to a TPK, as the wrong character goes to help at the wrong time. Someone else falls, and the effect continues to worsen.

How do your groups deal with this? What have you done? We discussed me (the DM) keeping secret track of the negative HP countdown. The thought was that maybe if they didn't know specifics at any time, they'd just concentrate on finishing the battle and do what they could to save their friends afterwards. But we decided that would only exacerbate the problem.

The players are looking for a way to stay true to their good alignments while also recognizing that maybe not everyone comes home alive...especially if it means no one coming home alive. Any mechanical house rules or table practices you could suggest that would help with this?

Thanks in advance.
C

 

[billd91]

I'm not really sure what the actual problem is other than the party has no set strategy about who's job it is to deal with stabilizing someone who goes down and/or nobody starts calling out at the table what needs to be done.

Changing tactics in a fight to save someone who is dying is a great thing for characters to do. No question about it being heroic. So why does it start to break down so much? Is it that the PC in the most other trouble or forming the lynchpin of the current fight strategy is the one trying to pull off and help the downed comrade even if someone else is better placed to help? Or is it that the fight was going to fall apart anyway because one of the PCs was bleeding on the floor or because one person stops doing what he's doing to help out?

If it's the former, I'm surprised a little quick yell out between characters doesn't solve the problem and get the right person to help out. If it's the latter, you may want to try to find a way to stabilize a character in a faster or easier way or without direct intervention by someone else. I think the Magic Item Compendium has an item or two that will auto-stabilize. Might be worth the investment.

 

[aboyd]

Maybe someone should play a Dragon Shaman (from the PHB 2, I think). That class has a healing aura that auto-stabilizes downed characters. Or consider a cleric with Close Wounds (from Spell Compendium, I think). That spell is ranged, so nobody has to move in for a save. That spell is also an immediate action, which means the player can interrupt the DM on another player's turn to make it happen out of initiative order. What that means is that if a character is told "you lose X points, you're unconscious" the cleric with Close Wounds can say, "maybe not, I cast Close Wounds, is he still standing?"

Close Wounds heals a very small amount, but it can be enough to keep a player conscious, which is enough to get them running away on their own.

 

[Dragonwriter]

Yeah, Dragon Shaman is PH2. They are a very good support class. I'm playing one right now and he has saved the party's behind (especially one member) several times already. It's free healing up to half your maximum with a 30 ft. range and affects all allies.

That said, maybe the Cleric should pick up the feat Divine Ward. You have to expend a few uses of Turn Undead to Ward the whole party, but it increases the range of your beneficial spells from Touch to Close. Bruiser goes down... Cleric casts Cure Whatever at Close range (defensively in all likelihood). Bruiser is okay. For now at least. Bruiser can retreat, drink some potions to heal up and come back into the fray.

 

[klofft]

Thanks for the responses. Some useful stuff here (very useful) though I'm afraid our fundamental problem remains.

billd: The way it goes wrong is something like this: PC goes down in a bad situation. Cleric (usually a fighting type in our groups) leaves his mark to save fallen ally. Tactical situation worsens enough that someone else falls. Cleric now has two people to save as well as not contributing to the fight. Situation continues to worsen. TPK. It doesn't happen a lot. But all 4 TPKs of the past couple years were basically this scenario.

aboyd: Our last party had a Dragon Shaman. Very useful class. That party did very well as long as the shaman was standing. Unfortunately for them, they got too bold with living at 1/2 HP most of the time. Plus they had no cleric.
Thanks for Close Wounds. That's an awesome spell!

Dragonwriter: Thanks for Divine Ward also.

Our new party has 2 clerics and a paladin. Our last party had neither. One of the clerics is a dedicated healer. I think we'll be a lot better off.
I'm still concerned though that from a player perspective, the mechanical ticking off of negative HP creates a bad sort of tension in combat ("We have to save him because it's not fair to the player that he dies and we lived without trying to save him." - Not a literal quote, but an implied impression.)

 

[Starbuck_II]

Maybe someone should play a Dragon Shaman (from the PHB 2, I think).

Wait, isn't Dragon Shaman's aura like Fast heal? Fast heal doesn't work on someone dying (because natural healing doesn't andFast heal says it is justfaster natural healing).

But back to OP:
Status lets you know exact hps in character so you can heal them when needed and not freak out in character.
Deathwatch works too but evil aligned; though it is a lower level.

Magic Item Compendruim had a Armor ability that healed you when dying I think.
Also auto stablizing belt.

 

[Shin Okada]

How about letting PCs roll heal checks to see the exact condition of fallen comrades? If healers can see if the comrade is already dead or just dying, they can take appropriate move, say, eliminating the threat first and then resurrect the ally instead of Cure spells. I think making this Heal check as a free action (or even no action) can be reasonable.

But anyway, usually, if you have 2 clerics and a paladin in a party, the party is stable enough.

 

[klofft]

See, this method is OK...but it's still based on the players either not knowing the exact numbers or forcing them to work with metagame knowledge. My players are generally very good about not acting meta, but when a player's character's life is at stake, things sometimes change.

 

[Nimloth]

Wait, isn't Dragon Shaman's aura like Fast heal? Fast heal doesn't work on someone dying (because natural healing doesn't andFast heal says it is just faster natural healing).

Well you're sort of correct.

FAST HEALING
A creature with fast healing has the extraordinary ability to regain hit points at an exceptional rate. Except for what is noted here, fast healing is like natural healing.
At the beginning of each of the creature’s turns, it heals a certain number of hit points (defined in its description).
Unlike regeneration, fast healing does not allow a creature to regrow or reattach lost body parts.
A creature that has taken both nonlethal and lethal damage heals the nonlethal damage first.
Fast healing does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation.
Fast healing does not increase the number of hit points regained when a creature polymorphs.

INJURY AND DEATH
...
Recovering without Help: A severely wounded character left alone usually dies. He has a small chance, however, of recovering on his own.
A character who becomes stable on his own (by making the 10% roll while dying) and who has no one to tend to him still loses hit points, just at a slower rate. He has a 10% chance each hour of becoming conscious. Each time he misses his hourly roll to become conscious, he loses 1 hit point. He also does not recover hit points through natural healing.
Even once he becomes conscious and is disabled, an unaided character still does not recover hit points naturally. Instead, each day he has a 10% chance to start recovering hit points naturally (starting with that day); otherwise, he loses 1 hit point.
Once an unaided character starts recovering hit points naturally, he is no longer in danger of naturally losing hit points (even if his current hit point total is negative).

Natural healing does effect the dying, just not in the normal way (with lots of chances to not work). My group has always had Fast healing effect characters from -1 to-9. Does Errata, FAQ or customer service say anything about this?

 

[Shin Okada]

But PCs (not players) know that dead people can be resurrected but if all the party members are dead, no one will likely to resurrect them.

Acting based on that knowledge is not META. But role play, isn't it?