We All Won – The OGL Three Years Later

[Cergorach]

What does "copy left" mean? People just started using that term here without explanation.

You mean since 1976... Source: Dr. Dobb's Journal - Vol 1 : People's Computer Company : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Explanation: Copyleft - Wikipedia

 

[Deset Gled]

For me, the vast array of high-quality RPGs we have with vastly different takes on the game is an example of a big change. That's why I think right now is the time to look at it. Last year we had so many fantastic RPGs released that, in my mind, are of equal production quality to D&D and I think a lot of that energy came from companies going their own way after the OGL crisis.

This feels like a lot of whataboutism to me.

Wotc burned down the OGL. But what about Daggerheart? What about Draw Steel? What about the price of tea in China?

Any of these other games having development and success is independent of WotC's actions. They are neither better off nor worse off. Your own argument from the OP is "Most people probably don't care. They're here for D&D and never pay attention to the brand." If they don't care enough for the OGL fiasco to matter, how can you claim they care enough to say the success of these games is tied to the OGL fiasco?

"We all won." Won what? Nothing. We won nothing. In a battle we didn't want to fight against an enemy we didn't want to oppose on a field we didn't want to be in.

You can celebrate not losing, of course. That's justified. But it's really not the same thing.

 

[Reynard]

You mean since 1976... Source: Dr. Dobb's Journal - Vol 1 : People's Computer Company : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Explanation: Copyleft - Wikipedia

I think Micah meant in the thread. No need to be snarky when someone just asks a question.

 

[bsss]

What does "copy left" mean? People just started using that term here without explanation.

Other replies covered it, but basically, it's a term started in software licensing as spearheaded by the GNU GPL encapsulating that the work is available freely as long as derivative works are also made available under the same terms as which the derived work was received. That if I said you could freely remix, distribute, etc. my work, you have to give the same rights to whomever else receives your work that derived from mine. This is essentially the same as CC's "ShareAlike" clause. All of the work available freely is in the commons, copyleft seeks to keep further advancement in the commons rather than it slipping into proprietary availability.

I think it shows up in these discussions often due to the stated inspiration and synergies that the OGL has with the GNU GPL.

Except the adherence to the OGL's virality were essentially voluntary without enforcement, while many quite large companies ignored it altogether.
Nothing was lost except the language. The practice was already gone.

I agree that without enforcement, the whole point is kind of moot, and that there's not a clear definition of what isn't covered by copyright or needing enforcement or so on. Losing the language loses the possibility of it serving as a clear permission in a defense in the future, is what I'd argue, I guess.

 

[Scribe]

Wotc burned down the OGL. But what about Daggerheart? What about Draw Steel? What about the price of tea in China?

I think the point is, burning down the OGL put a fire under people to create their own games, safe from Wizards.

So the other games are not whataboutism they are options that exist because companies wanted distance from Wizards and the now tainted OGL?

Maybe.

 

[Dire Bare]

So she came, watched the game for an hour, then left. She didn't want to play because it wasn't "name brand" D&D and she wanted to learn how to play so she could also join other groups that were playing "name brand" D&D.

I run an middle-level afterschool D&D Club. Most of the kids are not interested in any games other than D&D . . . one kid was a Pathfinder advocate, but I suspect they had a "fun uncle" pushing the game in their life.

And I've come to realize . . . D&D is too complicated for most middle-school aged kids. They won't read the books and they struggle to learn the rules, especially with Step 1, character creation. On the other hand, they are happy making things up as they go, which is how we did it back in the 80s.

If I gave them the Daggerheart rules dressed up in a D&D cover . . . they'd never know the difference. But when I suggest a different game that might be easier to learn, no interest.

 

[Dire Bare]

This feels like a lot of whataboutism to me.

Wotc burned down the OGL. But what about Daggerheart? What about Draw Steel? What about the price of tea in China?

Any of these other games having development and success is independent of WotC's actions. They are neither better off nor worse off. Your own argument from the OP is "Most people probably don't care. They're here for D&D and never pay attention to the brand." If they don't care enough for the OGL fiasco to matter, how can you claim they care enough to say the success of these games is tied to the OGL fiasco?

"We all won." Won what? Nothing. We won nothing. In a battle we didn't want to fight against an enemy we didn't want to oppose on a field we didn't want to be in.

You can celebrate not losing, of course. That's justified. But it's really not the same thing.

Whataboutism? That's not . . . sigh.

WotC didn't burn down the OGL. They tried, failed, and then course-corrected and we got something better. WotC isn't a person, it is a corporation made of lots of people, with different ideas and agendas. During the OGL "crisis", some people in charge wanted to burn down the OGL . . . but there were voices in the company arguing against that, and they ultimately "won" the day.

We don't really know, as Mike points out, what the gaming landscape would look like today had the OGL crisis not happened. We don't have access to an alternate universe to test hypotheses. But the publishing community most certainly reacted, and things most certainly would be different. The industry is definitely (IMO) in a stronger position BECAUSE of the "OGL Crisis" than it was before. How much so? What individual events are at least partially a result of the crisis? Shrug.

Folks get so emotional about this, like WotC came to their house and took all their gaming stuff. I roll my eyes with all of the "Never again!" style posts when it comes to WotC.

 

[SlyFlourish]

My video on the topic posted to Youtube. Here it is:

https://youtu.be/yjgyLNqWMII?t=1085

And the podcast if you prefer

We All Won – Three Years since the OGL Crisis – Lazy RPG Talk show | The Lazy RPG Podcast - D&D and RPG News and GM Prep from Sly Flourish

Starts at about 18 minutes.

 

[Dire Bare]

My video on the topic posted to Youtube. Here it is:

https://youtu.be/yjgyLNqWMII?t=1085

And the podcast if you prefer

We All Won – Three Years since the OGL Crisis – Lazy RPG Talk show | The Lazy RPG Podcast - D&D and RPG News and GM Prep from Sly Flourish

Starts at about 18 minutes.

The YouTube link goes to your podcast instead. Some of us like watching your face while we listen!

 

[TheSword]

Sorry… wrong thread. I thought this was the Warhammer Memes thread.

… oh wait, no it is the right thread.