We All Won – The OGL Three Years Later

[SteveC]

To me the biggest headscratch move was killing the OGL when, as a lot of folks pointed out, you could just make a gated gated community with D&D Beyond. I don't make a big salary, but I could have told them that. It seems definitely like that's where it's going, and that seems successful. WotC gets the cut, and the companies get access to the fan base.

The biggest loser then it turns out were the companies that made D&D 5E clones. They put money in for art, development and design, not to mention printing for products that are almost 5E by design. That must hurt (and that's being kind).

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The biggest loser then it turns out were the companies that made D&D 5E clones. They put money in for art, development and design, not to mention printing for products that are almost 5E by design. That must hurt (and that's being kind).

Well, yes and no. If Tales of the Valiant sells, that's great, but that's not its main job. The big thing is that Kobold Press now owns a D&D-like they can control, so they can sell 5E-compatible material even if WotC goes crazy again.

 

[Marc Radle]

Well, yes and no. If Tales of the Valiant sells …

Oh, it does!

 

[mamba]

The biggest loser then it turns out were the companies that made D&D 5E clones. They put money in for art, development and design, not to mention printing for products that are almost 5E by design. That must hurt (and that's being kind).

If they make a profit from it that is comparable to the one they would have made from another product, then there is no harm. ToV seems to be selling well enough, Kobold Press keeps creating new material for it.

 

[SteveC]

Well, yes and no. If Tales of the Valiant sells, that's great, but that's not its main job. The big thing is that Kobold Press now owns a D&D-like they can control, so they can sell 5E-compatible material even if WotC goes crazy again.

They were exactly the people I was thinking about. There was a lot of effort put into Project Black Flag. I know that I backed the initial Kickstarter. Now in 2026 I wonder, why bother? No shade on the Kobold Press people because they are some of the nicest and coolest people around but maintaining a core set of books and expansions for something that's almost entirely 5E is an expense. If it's working, hey, good on them.

I know when the OGL was happening, I was looking for a way forward because I have a crew that plays 5E as their game of choice. We usually play a campaign of 5E and then try something else, so it's been 5E to Daggerheart to 5E to Feng Shui and back to 5E. No one in the group likes 5.5E, and so we already have our 5E, it's just 5.0. It seems like we'd be the perfect candidates for Tales of the Valiant, but no one has expressed any interest, despite just about all of us backing the initial Kickstarter. To them, it's too similar. I'd sure play it, but my secret is I'd play anything just to have a chance to crack jokes and spend time with friends.

That's a long-winded way of saying adopting an almost D&D when we have 5E (and Roll20, so all the books) is just not happening. And that's why I'd expect publishers with a "not 5E" will take their rules changes, put them in a supplement, along with their monsters and new classes, and just sell it on Beyond.

I'm in no position to tell anyone what to do, but as far as an alternative that's almost D&D for folks to jump to, I think that ship has sailed. Of course, just my opinion, and no offense intended to the good folks at any of the companies who made these alternate books.

 

[Velderan]

They were exactly the people I was thinking about. There was a lot of effort put into Project Black Flag. I know that I backed the initial Kickstarter. Now in 2026 I wonder, why bother? No shade on the Kobold Press people because they are some of the nicest and coolest people around but maintaining a core set of books and expansions for something that's almost entirely 5E is an expense. If it's working, hey, good on them.

I'm not sure why you come to this conclusion when in theory they're getting paid to develop the books by their crowdfunding campaigns. As long as they don't get too aggressive with their print runs and end up stuck with a bunch of unsold inventory, they'll be fine.

Edit: I say in theory because I'm sure there are plenty of crowdfunding campaigns out there who poorly plan and end up having to use their own money to pay for stuff, but given KP isn't exactly new to the crowdfunding model I'm sure they have that part figured out.

 

[SteveC]

If they make a profit from it that is comparable to the one they would have made from another product, then there is no harm. ToV seems to be selling well enough, Kobold Press keeps creating new material for it.

You're correct, to be sure. It goes against two critical business strategies, though. Keeping multiple lines in print pits your books against themselves. Whenever anyone suggests that WotC could rerelease an earlier edition, that's all the talk.

And the second is, there are fewer and fewer companies putting out products for these lines, so you're getting an increasing share of a decreasing market.

Again, if it's what they want to do, can't fault them and wouldn't want to either because I like the Kobold Press people. Hope it works out well until 6E.

Edited to add: that's my peace on the issue. I think the OP was spot on in terms of where we are now. The real winner of the OGL war was me. I got a whole bunch of new games that would likely not have seen the light of day without it, and my group was angry enough to try a bunch of them.

 

[Micah Sweet]

They were exactly the people I was thinking about. There was a lot of effort put into Project Black Flag. I know that I backed the initial Kickstarter. Now in 2026 I wonder, why bother? No shade on the Kobold Press people because they are some of the nicest and coolest people around but maintaining a core set of books and expansions for something that's almost entirely 5E is an expense. If it's working, hey, good on them.

I know when the OGL was happening, I was looking for a way forward because I have a crew that plays 5E as their game of choice. We usually play a campaign of 5E and then try something else, so it's been 5E to Daggerheart to 5E to Feng Shui and back to 5E. No one in the group likes 5.5E, and so we already have our 5E, it's just 5.0. It seems like we'd be the perfect candidates for Tales of the Valiant, but no one has expressed any interest, despite just about all of us backing the initial Kickstarter. To them, it's too similar. I'd sure play it, but my secret is I'd play anything just to have a chance to crack jokes and spend time with friends.

That's a long-winded way of saying adopting an almost D&D when we have 5E (and Roll20, so all the books) is just not happening. And that's why I'd expect publishers with a "not 5E" will take their rules changes, put them in a supplement, along with their monsters and new classes, and just sell it on Beyond.

I'm in no position to tell anyone what to do, but as far as an alternative that's almost D&D for folks to jump to, I think that ship has sailed. Of course, just my opinion, and no offense intended to the good folks at any of the companies who made these alternate books.

Level Up is compatible with 5e, and works great on its own.

 

[mamba]

I know that I backed the initial Kickstarter. Now in 2026 I wonder, why bother?

I backed some more projects since, the PHB2, Northlands, and now the Gothic KS, all for ToV. The reason is simple, I prefer it over the 2024 D&D. If you do not, then don't bother, sure, but for me it is the exact opposite, why bother with 2024...

No one in the group likes 5.5E, and so we already have our 5E, it's just 5.0. It seems like we'd be the perfect candidates for Tales of the Valiant, but no one has expressed any interest, despite just about all of us backing the initial Kickstarter. To them, it's too similar.

that is a risk with all the 5e-likes I guess, arguably even with some that are a little farther out (13th Age, SotWW, Daggerheart, ...) they all cover roughly the same type of game with slightly different rules and emphasis

 

[mamba]

It goes against two critical business strategies, though. Keeping multiple lines in print pits your books against themselves.

Kobold Press only has one line, ToV. If you are talking about adventures, they are similar enough that there is not much difference, i.e. you need two sets of monster stat blocks and subclasses but that is about it - and that other 'line' is not really yours, it is WotC's, and when you are operating in the 5e space, you are competing with it and the 3pps regardless of whether you also offer your own compatible core game or not

And the second is, there are fewer and fewer companies putting out products for these lines, so you're getting an increasing share of a decreasing market.

Every 5e adventure works for ToV just as well, you may be missing out on subclasses or have to put a little work in to adjust them to ToV.

Ultimately this is no different than for a TTRPG that is not 5e-compatible, arguably those have it worse because they cannot make use of 5e's ecosystem the way ToV can

The real winner of the OGL war was me. I got a whole bunch of new games that would likely not have seen the light of day without it, and my group was angry enough to try a bunch of them.

Nice, other than ToV I am not sure I can say that any specific TTRPG was made as a consequence of the OGL crisis, but the OGL certainly made me look around and I found games I like better, so I consider that a win for me too