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<blockquote data-quote="Sadrik" data-source="post: 6081776" data-attributes="member: 14506">I think the main issue is that Charisma and Wisdom represent the same thing. Dumping all parts into one or the other could be easily understood by most people. The only part that is hard to glue on is perception/awareness. My biggest beef with perception/awareness being synonymous with wisdom is that it makes &quot;wise&quot; mean &quot;perceptive&quot;, I generally think of these two things as different. The wise cleric is not the guy I think of as who is first to spots stuff. This may be just a matter of rebranding the cleric as a Charisma based caster. Which I have thought would make sense for many years. So if:Wisdom was awareness, insight and perception and perhaps innate type castersCharisma was willpower, leadership, personality and divine type castersThe way this would affect saves would be this:Wisdom saves would be perceiving stuff (Awareness save)Intelligence saves would be figuring out suff (Logic save)Charisma saves would be resisting mental stuff (willpower save)Wisdom as a save would change the most here because everything that was a wisdom (willpower) save is now a charisma save. Intelligence would pull out a few of the effects (illusions, maze etc.). Then Wisdom would be something entirely new, it would probably be closest to a passive perception check in 4e, or sense motive and insight skill checks, (which were saves put into the skill system in the past). I can see lots of applications for this type of check though so it certainly would not be lack for usage.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sadrik, post: 6081776, member: 14506"] I think the main issue is that Charisma and Wisdom represent the same thing. Dumping all parts into one or the other could be easily understood by most people. The only part that is hard to glue on is perception/awareness. My biggest beef with perception/awareness being synonymous with wisdom is that it makes "wise" mean "perceptive", I generally think of these two things as different. The wise cleric is not the guy I think of as who is first to spots stuff. This may be just a matter of rebranding the cleric as a Charisma based caster. Which I have thought would make sense for many years. So if: Wisdom was awareness, insight and perception and perhaps innate type casters Charisma was willpower, leadership, personality and divine type casters The way this would affect saves would be this: Wisdom saves would be perceiving stuff (Awareness save) Intelligence saves would be figuring out suff (Logic save) Charisma saves would be resisting mental stuff (willpower save) Wisdom as a save would change the most here because everything that was a wisdom (willpower) save is now a charisma save. Intelligence would pull out a few of the effects (illusions, maze etc.). Then Wisdom would be something entirely new, it would probably be closest to a passive perception check in 4e, or sense motive and insight skill checks, (which were saves put into the skill system in the past). I can see lots of applications for this type of check though so it certainly would not be lack for usage. [/QUOTE]

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