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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sadrik" data-source="post: 6168418" data-attributes="member: 14506">Saves are not right as they are shown. I think everyone agrees with that. I think that narrowing the scope of wisdom and dexterity would be really good in accomplishing the goal of fixing stats. 1. Skills and feats/maneuvers that double as saves should become saves. There should not be a two tiered save system. Diplomacy should go against a cha save for instance, slipping falling while climbing should be a str save and resisting a bluff should be a cha save. Additionally if someone is trying to do a maneuver against you with a feat (trip, disarm etc.) you should make a save to resist, str save or dex save or whatever. I don't care if the effect comes from a skill or a spell or a feat, when it affects you you should grab your die and resist with a save, not with some other wonky skill or feat subsystem. 2. Armor bonuses should add to your saves to reduce damage from area spells. No longer should the armored guy be hosed when the fireball goes off. All that armor should reduce his chance to take damage. So if adding armor to your dex save you could add either your armor bonus or your dex whichever is higher. I can see armor being lower a bit to make this work. This would lower the net utility of dex, a good thing.3. Wisdom should be the perception and awareness stat and that is it. Int and cha should subsume everything else into them. This leaves a very important stat that could be enhanced ever so slightly. A perception save, would be a very useful thing. I think initiative modifier could be moved here. Wisdom is noticing things, Intelligence is figuring out things and Charisma is resisting mental effects. I think it clearly delineates the differences in this case as to which save applies when. Surprise check is now a wisdom save. Notice the rogue sneaking by is a wisdom save. So as you can see some of the skills which were set up as a resist skill (spot listen etc) could be wisdom saves. some classes or races might have a bonus to certain types of wisdom saves, similar to dwarves having a bonus to certain types of constitution saves (poison).4. Dexterity is the attack stat, roll an attack and you use your dexterity. Some types of weapons you can use strength. Basically this is the same as before just flipped a little to make the understanding easier for new players. no need to separate out the ranged attacks vs. melee attacks and then further separate out which are finesse and which are not. Instead dex to hit then some weapons allow you to use strength to hit. Much simpler.5. Spells should always use a save do not use a skill check or some other funky spell special rule. Just a save. No 30% chance of this if this or that. Or roll a spot check to notice X, or whatever. It should be a save. period.6. Spells with attack rolls. If a spell will be limited by an attack roll it should still get a save to reduce effect. Yeah. Just because you hit does not mean you should auto effect them. I personally like spells to auto hit in most cases. No need to target where your fireball or flame strike hits.7. A spells listing should always say what happens when you make the save to resist it. In some cases it might be 1/2 damage, in some cases it might be you are dazzled for a round, or a drowsy feeling washes over you. At minimum a description with no actual game impact should happen. This goes a long way into the developing the narrative elements of the game. Not only describe the effects of a failed save but also when a save is made.8. saves with less binary effects, save or die, pass or fail. Fail or mitigate is better, many spells are set up this way already but many should include a mitigating factor, even if it is only description as I described above.</blockquote>

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