We saw a Star War! Last Jedi spoiler thread

[pukunui]

That's not the point. Even ignoring the map, it's ridiculous to think you can watch stuff happening elsewhere in space with your naked eyes. It's a signature JJ film-making technique that I find irksome and distracting.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

As I recall, you see the beam split and destroy a handful of moons of a gas giant, one of which is presumably Hosnia Prime; a Jovian system, rather than a solar system. Totally works without any need for any arcane inventions by licensed products. You don’t need to resort to that to make the movie work. What’s on screen is perfectly cromulent, and shows a single solar system. It’s right there!

Wait...so your explanation is that Han decided to take the Falcon to visit his old friend, Maz in order to get a new ship so he could throw the First Order off his trail by getting a new ship. Maz's castle is apparently, located in the same solar system as the HQ of the Republic (the Hosnian system), but the Hosnian system isn't a solar system, it's a gas giant and its moons that everyone refers to as the "Hosnian System" even though every mention of a system until now has been about solar systems?

So, let's assume this is correct. Han went to this planet so that he wouldn't lead the First Order to the Resistance base they were heading to on D'Qar. However, your theory is that D'Qar is ALSO located in the same solar system as Hosnian Prime, the capital of the Republic. Wouldn't going to Takodana just lead them directly to the base since they've shown that scanners tend to be able to see everything within about a system before?

Then, when the First Order was bragging about how one shot from the Starkiller could destroy an entire system, they were just joking and it only destroys one gas giant an its moons, leaving both Takodana and D'Qar intact, since they were both in the same system? They didn't even experience debris or anything falling?

Shortly after, they start powering up Starkiller Base to take another shot, but this time at the "hidden Resistance base" on D'Qar. The Resistance has to move into action quickly to blow it up before it fires and kills them all. But why would this have to be a SECOND shot. It blows up system and it apparently fired at the Hosnian system, which D'Qar is in according to your theory.

That makes no sense at all. It seems like I'd have to jump through more hoops to accept that interpretation of the movie than just accepting the the information in Star Wars Battlefront 2, the Visual Guide to The Force Awakens, the official wiki, the official novelization of The Force Awakens, and everything else ever printed about it.

I think it's much simpler to think that Disney wouldn't put out a bunch of false information about their universe and that a movie maker decided to misunderstand physics for a better visual than it is to assume there's a grand conspiracy to cover up all of the planets being in the same system.

 

[hawkeyefan]

The advantage the EU has here is that it's actually telling the story of how the Republic builds and has to fight off the remains of the Empire. The writers are basicaly showing their work. The Happy Everafter is not quite that everafter, but they are showing us that their victory actually had consequences and they achieved something - but they have to keep fighting for it.

In TFA, we're just seeing it all dismantled already. They didn't show their work.
Why wouldn't the story about how Kylo Ren turns and destroys the young new Jedi Order worth showing? Why isn't the story about how the First Order builts itself on the remains of the Empire worth showing? Because they couldn't figure out how to convincingly tell that story?

Or because those aren’t the stories they wanted to tell? Instead, those are parts of the backstory to the story they did want to tell.

Much like we didn’t know what the Clone Wars were, or what Obi Wan and Anakin had been up to prior to A New Hope. Every Star Wars movie starts in media res. They give you enough to tell the story.

The EU kind of stuff is fine for fleshing things out or for expanding on things or telling ancillary stories. Some fans will want that stuff. But for others, they’re satisfied with the movie.

 

[Morrus]

Wait...so your explanation is that Han decided to take the Falcon to visit his old friend, Maz in order to get a new ship so he could throw the First Order off his trail by getting a new ship. Maz's castle is apparently, located in the same solar system as the HQ of the Republic (the Hosnian system), but the Hosnian system isn't a solar system, it's a gas giant and its moons that everyone refers to as the "Hosnian System" even though every mention of a system until now has been about solar systems?

I won't quote your entire post, but that's a remarkably ineloquent way of making something incredibly simple sound complicated. Almost like you tried to! But yes, that is what was shown on screen. You might not *like* what they showed on screen, or prefer what some licensed products say instead, but there it is. I mean, watch that clip I posted above; it's right there.

I think it's much simpler to think that Disney wouldn't put out a bunch of false information about their universe and that a movie maker decided to misunderstand physics for a better visual than it is to assume there's a grand conspiracy to cover up all of the planets being in the same system

"Grand conspiracy"? OK, the sarcasm is getting a little overbearing, don't you think?

If you prefer the version in the licensed poducts to the one on screen, more power to you. Go for it! I honestly don't mind. I've made my thoughts clear, I think. I'm not going to just keep repeating them over and over. Nobody wants that.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Or because those aren’t the stories they wanted to tell? Instead, those are parts of the backstory to the story they did want to tell.

Much like we didn’t know what the Clone Wars were, or what Obi Wan and Anakin had been up to prior to A New Hope. Every Star Wars movie starts in media res. They give you enough to tell the story.

To be fair, the reason they started with "Episode 4" wasn't because that was Lucas' vision. He said that it was because the stuff he wanted to do with Episodes 1-3 required special effects that weren't quite able to be performed yet. So he started with Episode 4 since he felt those movies would be easier to do, with the intention of doing 1-3 later in order to fill in the details.

He didn't start in media res just because.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Watched a Kevin Smith review last night of last jedi. Hes less angry than Angry Joe but he di bring up the fact that Luke calls his lightsaber a lazer sword

I get the fact that hey Luke cant outshine the new hero and its time to move on blah blah blah.

However was this movie really marketed to 3 year olds? No in fact it was marketed as an Empire Strikes back killer or as good as. Star wars was huge in the 70's and 80's. I asked my kids and its not even a blip in the schools. You could say well old timer kids are different today and my kids schools are talking about it. That is total crap. Avengers, Wonderwoman, Stranger things, Riverdale etc were/are hot topics. Star Wars has lost some of its luster basically due to the fact that theres crappy directing and crappy storyline with shallow/awful characters such as jar jar, Poe etc. Disney basically poured a ton of love into a so/so comic hero Iron Man with a washed up older actor (he was in his 40's with an old guy as the villain) and then built it into a giant franchise. I would bet that if John Favreau had directed Star wars that it would be doing much better.

forget the 70-80's nostalgia. If this movie got released against avengers it would get destroyed. Heck I bet the greatest showman and Jumanji could really hurt ticket sales

I don’t know if that’s true or not. And we’ll never find out since Disney wouldn’t have Avengers and Star Wars compete. But even if they did....so what? What’s with this competition angle you’re bringing up?

That the new Star Wars isn’t the best movie franchise in the modern era? It’s subjective. And the market is different today than it was in the late 70s early 80s. Just the fact that TV can compete with movies is a pretty recent phenomenon. And Netflix is a game changer.

We could just as easily say that if the original trilogy came out today, they wouldn’t perform as well as they had.

It’s an apples to oranges kind of comparison.

 

[Morrus]

That's not the point. Even ignoring the map, it's ridiculous to think you can watch stuff happening elsewhere in space with your naked eyes. It's a signature JJ film-making technique that I find irksome and distracting.

I can see Mars, Jupiter, and Venus easily with my naked eye. If one of them were to violently explode, I'm pretty sure we'd all be able to see it, as long as it was in the sky at the time.

 

[hawkeyefan]

That's not the same character I remember at all. It isn't just that he has flaws now, it's that every single trait that defined him in the other movies was gone. He failed, then he repeated his failure over and over again during this movie by rejecting Rey and the rest of the galaxy and feeling sorry for himself.

The fact that he shows up at the very end feels hollow because of how long it took for him to get to that point, and the fact that his decision really doesn't end up making much of a difference at all. Sure, he let them escape, but he could have saved everyone and stopped this years ago if he hadn't given up.

I would agree that he is not the same character we remember. A lot has happened to him in the time between Return of the Jedi and now. And that’s just what we know. What we’re shown is a loss of devastating scope. I think anyone who chooses not to acknowledge how that would affect a person and instead expected them to be who they were before the event...I don’t know. It’s much easier to do that with fictional characters. It’s also much easier of saying that they are acting out of character.

So I can understand that someone may not like the route they chose to go with him. But I think they established what they needed to for that route.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I won't quote your entire post, but that's a remarkably ineloquent way of making something incredibly simple sound complicated. Almost like you tried to! But yes, that is what was shown on screen. You might not *like* what they showed on screen, or prefer what some licensed products say instead, but there it is. I mean, watch that clip I posted above; it's right there.

I saw it blow up a bunch of planets. How does that prove they are in the same system? They looked up and saw the beam but there could be one of a thousand explanations for them seeing it that doesn't involve them being in the same system. Like the explanation they give in the novel. You've latched on to one theory (one that is never stated in the movie) and decided it is true.

I pointed out about 10 logical inconsistencies in your theory. Your response to that is "*shrug*"?

Here's what I know from the movie:
-Starkiller base destroys star systems
-Starkiller base fires and they show multiple planets blowing up
-People on Takodana look up and see the beam
-People on D'Qar look up and see the beam
-General Hux says that they've successfully destroyed the Republic capital system, the Hosnian system and wiped out its fleet
-Someone tells Leia that they can't get a hold of the Hosnian System(which makes no sense if they are IN the Hosnian system), that it's wiped out. It's all gone. The Republic is gone.
-The people on D'Qar and Takodana are perfectly safe.

All of that makes perfect sense if neither D'Qar or Takodana is in the Hosnian system. It make no sense at all if they are in the same system. The ONLY thing that points to them being in the same system is that they saw the beam in the sky.

 

[hawkeyefan]

To be fair, the reason they started with "Episode 4" wasn't because that was Lucas' vision. He said that it was because the stuff he wanted to do with Episodes 1-3 required special effects that weren't quite able to be performed yet. So he started with Episode 4 since he felt those movies would be easier to do, with the intention of doing 1-3 later in order to fill in the details.

He didn't start in media res just because.

Putting aside the fact that I’ve heard varying reasons on why he started with part 4, the fact remains that every episode begins in media res. Each of them have a scroll in the beginning that explains recent events, even Episode I. It’s a good chunk of the backstory given out up front.

And that’s what Luke’s Jedi academy and Kylo’s fall is....backstory. It helps define and shape the events in this movie, but is not the focus of the story.