Weakest PrCs

[Rystil Arden]

Can we at least agree that epic is orthogonal to the concept of balance as we know it, and let it go at that?

Oh yes, that was my point--someone else brought up Metamind's usefulness at epic levels and I've been trying to point out that it is only true due to crazy poor design of epic

 

[Stalker0]

I think if any prc has to be epic in order to become good, then it automatically sucks

I also don't get everyone's beef with the alienist. Aren't pseudonatural creaters better than normal celestial ones? And with full spellcasting they are really giving up much.

 

[Kwitchit]

I also don't get everyone's beef with the alienist. Aren't pseudonatural creaters better than normal celestial ones? And with full spellcasting they are really giving up much.

Pseudonatural creatures are about equal to celestial ones. However, the alienist can no longer summon creatures which don't have the celestial or fiendish template. These include most of the better ones on the list.

 

[atomn]

Combat Trapsmith.

I think so too. I like the concept a ton but it seems like all of its traps can be covered well enough by a wizard/sorcerer.

 

[Marshall]

Heh. No one mentioned Shining Blade.

"Hi! I gave up 5 divine caster levels so I could make my sword Shocking! Plus, I can make it unable to hit Undead, Constructs, Animated Objects and any number of other non-living opponents!"

 

[Goreg Skullcrusher]

Combat Trapsmith

Actually, the entirety of the Complete Scoundrel PrC's are pretty underpowered, except in one specific scenario (that just so happens to apply to my game): No spellcasters.

I understand that playing without (true) spellcasters is far from the norm, but it suddenly makes several of the C.Sc PrC's interesting choices -- namely the Combat Trapsmith and the Master of Masks.

I'm not sure it's the worst, but Vigilante from C.Adv is pretty horrible. How often really are you going to use your smite class ability without some massive DM interventions?

 

[atomn]

Actually, the entirety of the Complete Scoundrel PrC's are pretty underpowered, except in one specific scenario (that just so happens to apply to my game): No spellcasters.

I understand that playing without (true) spellcasters is far from the norm, but it suddenly makes several of the C.Sc PrC's interesting choices -- namely the Combat Trapsmith and the Master of Masks.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. In a low magic, low spellcaster world they'd be pretty slick.

 

[Nifft]

Rainbow Servant is actually crazy good if you go with the apparent typo and follow the fact that text trumps chart to get full caster progression, though that seems clearly not what was intended.

Hey, if we're allowed to abuse editing mistakes, I want to roll up a Vigilante, who gets 20 3rd level spells! And I want Arcane Strike.

Otherwise, add Vigilante to the list of Not Worth It PrCs.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Mistwell]

I'm not sure it's the worst, but Vigilante from C.Adv is pretty horrible. How often really are you going to use your smite class ability without some massive DM interventions?

Funny. I am working my way towards that PRC. And I think it is pretty good. Not overpowered or anything, but not underpowered either. Seems about on par with my current levels of rogue and ranger. It includes: Detect evil at will; two good saves; 6 skill points with a pretty good skill list; A small but good list of spells (puts things like invisibility and greater invis and blink on my spell list, which is great for a rogue); great investigative abilities like quick hide, quick search, streetwise, and speak with dead; as you mentioned the smite abilities (which are EASY to qualify for if you are in city adventures - I mean how hard is it really to find a foe that has committed a crime. If you found them, it's probably because they committed a crime!); and some solid high level abilities like mettle and dimensional anchor.

Sure doesn't seem like a particularly weak PRC to me!

 

[Mistwell]

Hey, if we're allowed to abuse editing mistakes, I want to roll up a Vigilante, who gets 20 3rd level spells! And I want Arcane Strike.

Otherwise, add Vigilante to the list of Not Worth It PrCs.

Cheers, -- N

Why do you guys feel Vigilante is so weak? I don't get it. It seems quite decent to me.

And, in a related question, if you were playing a character based on an investigator theme, but still wanted to be effective in combat, what prestige class would you take?