Wealth in 4th Edition

[ScorpiusRisk]

Check out the Great Post On Chatty DM's site and amke sure you read the comments below.

It's all about ways to eliminate gold, and possibly DM treasure allocation, to provide fun with less prep time and more of what you're players want.

Even if you're a DM who always wants to pick and place each tiny gold piece awarded, its definantly worth the read, to see people's reactions to a core mechanic of 4th edition.
http://chattydm.net/2009/11/09/turning-dd-4es-economy-on-its-head/

 

[Mark]

(. . .) player-controlled system of Magic Attribution.

Seems like that would fit the game design pretty well.

 

[korjik]

Yup, the best way to help players who like to kill things and take their stuff is to take away the stuff.

The ideas are not bad, but I personally wouldnt play a game where my loot poofed out of nowhere everytime I levelled up.

My system is to just toss out a couple weapons/implements/armour of appropriate level, then toss out several random items. They will end up with more items per level (I am thinking 6-7 per level), but some will just be sold, some will be stored, and some will never get used. Since it takes about 7 items of level L to buy an item of level L+1, I am not worried about them getting too many more powerful items.

 

[Dausuul]

I've been toying with the idea of a system where the PCs take "relics" from powerful foes (plunder from an evil wizard's laboratory, the scales of a slain dragon, et cetera), which can be used as components to craft magic items. You use a relic and pay a nominal fee for other ritual components, and you can make one of a number of magic items out of the relic.

The advantage to such a system is that you don't have to think a lot about what relics to hand out. You just killed a dragon? You get dragon scales. Make yourself a [something that can be made out of dragon scales].

The disadvantage, of course, is that it requires making up a big list of relics and items that can be made from each. However, one way to do it might be to make up a list of 20-30 "themes" and go down the list of magic items, picking out items for each theme. Then pick several themes for each relic. So, for instance, red dragon scales might have the themes of Fire, Armor, and Strength.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

However, one way to do it might be to make up a list of 20-30 "themes" and go down the list of magic items, picking out items for each theme. Then pick several themes for each relic. So, for instance, red dragon scales might have the themes of Fire, Armor, and Strength.

While this isn't quite my cup of tea in terms of magical items, I have an idea or two for you.

Turn your themes into keywords: Fire, Strength, Alchemy for example. Dragon Scales might have the "Fire" and "Strength" keywords and thus can be used as a component for a magical item that has Fire or Strength amongst its keywords. However, you might also put a rating on this represented by Roman Numerals: I, II, III up to whatever. Dragon scales might have a fairly high rating and so could be used for some of the more powerful items (such as the Prism of Firey Indulgence) that require a Fire {V}, where as a monstrous scorpion's poison which only has a Fire {II} rating would not be appropriate for such an item.

Just a thought. It would be an interesting (if somewhat mechanical) system for the production of magical items.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Dausuul]

While this isn't quite my cup of tea in terms of magical items, I have an idea or two for you.

Turn your themes into keywords: Fire, Strength, Alchemy for example. Dragon Scales might have the "Fire" and "Strength" keywords and thus can be used as a component for a magical item that has Fire or Strength amongst its keywords. However, you might also put a rating on this represented by Roman Numerals: I, II, III up to whatever. Dragon scales might have a fairly high rating and so could be used for some of the more powerful items (such as the Prism of Firey Indulgence) that require a Fire {V}, where as a monstrous scorpion's poison which only has a Fire {II} rating would not be appropriate for such an item.

Just a thought. It would be an interesting (if somewhat mechanical) system for the production of magical items.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

I thought of that; only problem is, magic items don't have keywords. A few have powers with keywords, but most don't. So it comes to the same thing.

 

[FireLance]

This is quite similar to the system that I use in my home game. Every time the PCs gain a level, they get one magic item of their new level +1, and they get gold equal to one fifth the value of a magic item of their new level -1. For example, when the PCs reach 2nd level, they get a level 3 magic item and 72 gp (one-fifth the value of a level 1 magic item).

The PCs still keep track of small amounts of gold which they can use to buy potions and other consumables, or even minor magic items at higher levels, and they retain their old items and can sell them if they want (for one-fifth the value, as per the standard assumptions).

I should highlight that the magic items don't "poof out of nowhere". Magic item gain is abstracted in much the same way that gaining feats and powers are abstracted. Just as the PC is assumed to be training, seeking out teachers, or developing new techniques in order to gain whatever new feats and powers he has after he gains a level, the PC is assumed to have found his new magic item in a treasure chest at the end of the last adventure, or it was given to him as a reward or a gift, etc.

 

[Asmor]

How about instead of futzing around with keywords, you just ask the players to explain how the component is integrated into the item. For an example with the dragon scale, it could be made into the center of a shield, the crest on a helmet, a belt's buckle, the cross-guard of a sword, etc.

 

[RyvenCedrylle]

I'm perfectly fine with some kind of automatic wealth/magic item system because magic items in 4E (and really 3E as well) don't interest me much. It's not to say that they're bad, just that their necessity makes them uninteresting. I don't get excited as a PC because I found my next meal, do I? Do I quest for a place to live? No, I adventure for things above and beyond my necessities. If I mechanically "need" magic items, then finding them is kinda boring. Let me, as a character, find the MacGuffin; things that could be dangerous or just beyond my capability and understanding. If I happen to find an extra "standard" magic item along the way, then it's more exciting because I neither expected it nor required it. But if I "need" a +2 elemental sword just to get through the day, I don't want to have to go track it down.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I , too, do not think much of 4E treasue allocation, especially, (as with previous editions) the gold cost rapidly spirals into ludicrous territory. But, with residium actually being a material, I think there is a way to use it well. WIth residium, you can power riturals, and make magical items, possibly without even needingthe actual books, gloves, etc that the magic will imbue. I am thinking of having magical items totally made of magic, the magic crating the actual item, instead of imbuing a pre-existing magical item.

To me that helps explain the oddities of the masterwork armors, and what is the value of a +6 longsword after you pull the magic out of it. It walwo helps explain why mundane equipment is effectively worthless, if gold can hardly buy you any residium at all, or small amounts of it.

And if residium cannot be bought, the only place to get it is loot, which gives the players a good chance to be adventurers. Tha +1 sword is valuable as a souce of residum for either you or someone else, while the mundane plate can get you enough gold for the Inn, but most people handwave that anyway.

I like it because it can help seperate the gold cost for living and buying mundane things, and a residium economy that can only really be entered by those with access to it. So, instead of hundreds of platinum pieces, (I am growing to hate the platinum pieces of 4E.) you can instead put a lesser item there, or a vial or pool of actual residium the players can cart off.

Of course the conversion rate from magical items to residium needs to change. 20% is too low, but I was thinking 75% would work well. It is a high tax to converting items, so people will not be converting willy-nillly, but still it is possible to use a few lower level items to make a better one. So 2 or 3-1 or so, instead of 7-1 like it is now.

So the DM can still hand out gold, but on a level that is mostly daily-living level, and keep residum or magical items high enough to keep the level of wealth they want, and as an added bonus, can hand out more random items. With a 20% conversion rate, unneeded items are a real burn, but at 75%, they could be a lot more useful.

Ideas?