Weapon Binding ... fencers.

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

So I've been looking at fencing websites - they explained a lot of the moves, but I haven't seen a good explanation of the "bind weapon" or prise a fer move.

Are any of you fencers? Can you explain the move in plain English?

 

[MoriaCatlinChattal]

Sorry, I've only taken saber for two & a half years. I know an olympic fencer though, I'll ask him.

 

[Desdichado]

Bind: An attack which engages the opponent's blade and moves it diagonally to the opposite quadrant (i.e. from the inside high to the outside low, or outside high to inside low, etc.). A liement.

Prise [de Fer] (Fr.: "taking the iron"): A "taking" or contacting of the opponent's blade in an offensive or counter-offensive action; taking the blade. (Pronounced "pree-z [deh fair]")

Normally (in foil, at least, the only weapon with which I'm very familiar) you try to get around the guard, in this move, you literally push your opponents blade into a new position and then (in theory anyway) follow this move up with a quick lunge to the now open quadrant. We learned this second semester in college fencing.

By the way, is it hard to hook up with local fencing groups? I'd love to get back into it, and learn saber as well.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Bind: An attack which engages the opponent's blade and moves it diagonally to the opposite quadrant (i.e. from the inside high to the outside low, or outside high to inside low, etc.). A liement.

Prise [de Fer] (Fr.: "taking the iron"): A "taking" or contacting of the opponent's blade in an offensive or counter-offensive action; taking the blade. (Pronounced "pree-z [deh fair]")

Normally (in foil, at least, the only weapon with which I'm very familiar) you try to get around the guard, in this move, you literally push your opponents blade into a new position and then (in theory anyway) follow this move up with a quick lunge to the now open quadrant. We learned this second semester in college fencing.

By the way, is it hard to hook up with local fencing groups? I'd love to get back into it, and learn saber as well.

Are these different moves? I understood your plain English perfectly well, however. I had thought it was a defensive move up until this point.

 

[vulcan_idic]

I've found that "offensive" and "defensive" moves in combat are somewhat artificial terms as each, ideally, flows into the other swiftly and gracefully. The defensive move which protects you, may also open a vulnerability in your opponent, and thus one shifts from defense to offense in a moment - where does the one leave off and the other begin?

 

[Desdichado]

Can't recall for sure. I may have to break out the old "textbook" we bought for my college fencing class to double check.

 

[Dogbrain]

The actions under discussion are all of a kind, only the most painfully pedantic academicians insist upon separating them out. These are the same people who insist upon speaking of an "engagement by implication" when one is not making contact with an opponent's blade but both of you happen to be in the same line.

The key here is that the moves were developed to deal with thrusting weapons. They use leverage to move the opponent's blade to a place more convenient to you. They are not merely "pushing" the blade around but require that one exert leverage with your blade against your opponent's. This is why they require two points of contact with an opponent's blade. Merely pushing away with your blade against your opponent's will get you nothing, unless your opponent has the physical strength of an amoeba. Contact must be made with your blade and your guard against your opponent's blade. At that point, you have converted your opponent's blade into a lever. Your blade and guard then act as fulcrum and force (or vice-versa). Then it's a matter of applying leverage. It requires that the opponent make his weapon available for this action.

This is something that cannot be taught verbally but must be shown.

 

[Dogbrain]

I've found that "offensive" and "defensive" moves in combat are somewhat artificial terms as each, ideally, flows into the other swiftly and gracefully. The defensive move which protects you, may also open a vulnerability in your opponent, and thus one shifts from defense to offense in a moment - where does the one leave off and the other begin?

Purpose.

Timing is a different matter.

There are no such things as offensive or defensive "moves". There are no such things as "moves" in swordsmanship. "Moves" are for games like checkers, wherein one takes turns. In swordsmanship, all action is fluid. There are no "moves" at all in swordsmanship. To even speak of such things in swordsmanship betrays no knowledge of it.

There are offensive and defensive TECHNIQUES, and they can be combined in multiple times or single time, to be executed as needed. Actions can combine both offense and defense.

 

[Xath]

It's kind of tricky to explain in words, but I'll see what I can do.

Like a parry, a bind redirects the opponent's blade to an off target area. However, where a parry uses a perpindicular force to move the opponent's blade, a bind slides along the blade with a parallel force to change the angle of the opponent's blade.

How to explain....

Ok. Look at this picture. The two epees are at perpindicular angles to each other. From the picture we can see that Person A (the one on the left) was making an attack, but Person B brought his blade across his body to strike the blade at a perpindicular angle. This is a parry. However, If person B slides his blade down Person A's blade to further push it out of the way, it becomes a bind.

So...a bind is when one blade slides down another blade to move it out of the way. Or to trap it.

With historic dueling fencing weapons (and somewhat with modern fencing weapons) it is possible to use a bind to catch your opponent's guard and trap or disarm them. What you would do is slide your blade down you're opponent's blade so that the two blades are almost parallel to each other. Then you would catch your point in your opponent's guard and change the angle of your blade to lift the guard (and blade) out of your opponent's hand.


Umm...I hope this helps.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Thanks for the explanations.

Okay, I think I get it. Use your guard and your blade to push your opponent's blade into an inconvenient location. Good so far. Now this can be used to "set up" a disarm or a weapon trap if you catch his guard.

What does "trapping" his weapon mean?