Weapon Finesse?

[RefinedBean]

I'm a new DM and a player of mine was asking why there wasn't a Weapon Finesse feat for 4E, and I couldn't give a good answer, so we rolled up a nearly identical Elven Ranger, one given the Weapon Finesse feat as it functions in 3.5 and one doing everything all regular-like. (standard stat array used, went TWF obviously)

Long story short, my problem was this: The WF feat meant that the Ranger would be equally good to hit for both Ranged and Melee, do a higher damage on the Ranged attacks, and maintain an awesome AC.

However, this is only with the Standard array.

Help me, ENworlders! Would a house-ruled Weapon Finesse feat be too crazy (especially for a ranger)?

 

[the8bitdeity]

I think the powers were specifically chosen with Stat vs Defense for a reason, if you look at the rogue he essentially has weapon finesse. I think the idea of a weapon finesse feat breaks those reasons, therefore I wouldn't allow it.

 

[Nifft]

Yeah, powers that are supposed to be usable with Finesse already have it built in.

Rangers have to choose one combat style, and have to focus on one stat -- or they can sacrifice their secondary stat (Wisdom) to focus on both Strength and Dexterity, and that's a valid choice, but it's a painful trade-off.

It's good to make the trade-off painful. Everybody shouldn't be good at everything. An archery Ranger should have be worse in melee; a TWF Ranger should be worse at range.

Cheers, -- N

 

[generalhenry]

If TWF rangers where supposed to use dex their powers would use dex just like rogue powers do.

There's no need for weapon finesse. Powers that key other other stats take care of the issue.

 

[andarilhor]

I am thinking in a houserule to certain weapons (light blades for example) can be used with dex to basic melee attacks (basic attacks only!).

I don´t know yet how unbalancing that will be.

 

[RefinedBean]

This is what I was thinking, and what I'll tell him.

The only unfortunate consequence I can see is the absence of an "agile fighter," but I suppose a Swashbuckler is in the works at some point?

Thanks for the replies, guys.

And actually, the question wasn't even meant for my campaign, but a friend's. We're trying to update Midnight for 4.0

I should create a whole thread just for THAT headache.

 

[Samurai]

I am thinking in a houserule to certain weapons (light blades for example) can be used with dex to basic melee attacks (basic attacks only!).

I don´t know yet how unbalancing that will be.

Exactly... that is what I did, and it works fine. Powers use the listed stat, basic attacks using Light Blades (including OA's) can use Dex with the feat.

 

[the8bitdeity]

The only unfortunate consequence I can see is the absence of an "agile fighter," but I suppose a Swashbuckler is in the works at some point?

I think right now this is handled by the Brawny Rogue build. The rogue is much more of a front liner than in the past. Remember that with marks, enemies are -2 on OA against a rogue trying to get behind them. You take the OA, then always try to move into a flanking position. Your DEX vs AC attacks plus Sneak Attack (and Backstabber) let you do considerable damage. Make a human rogue with backstabber + rapier WP and you've got a Weapon Finesse fighter.

 

[Nifft]

The only unfortunate consequence I can see is the absence of an "agile fighter," but I suppose a Swashbuckler is in the works at some point?

Rogue. Seriously.

Take the Fighter multi-class feat, take a couple of power swap feats, and head into either Kensei or Iron Vanguard. You'll need Strength as well as Dexterity, of course, but you need some Strength for weapon improvement feats anyway.

I'd recommend TWF and TWD, and fighting with a dagger in one hand and a longsword or rapier in the other.

Cheers, -- N

 

[RefinedBean]

Rogue. Seriously.

The only problem is we're converting over from Midnight, and he was a...what're they called, Wildlander or somesuch. (the Ranger equivalent)

So he'll want to do Rogue multiclassed into Ranger, or Ranger multiclassed into Rogue. No biggie, but doing Rogue and then mc-ing into Fighter might take away from the "feel" of the guy.

I don't see it that way...I mean, that's pretty much why fluff exists, eh? Grab a feat that gives him Nature and he should be good to go.

At any rate, he'll definitely be one of the two martial strikers, so we can make it work from there.