Weapon Illustrations in RPG Books

[Mighty Halfling]

I have this one 3e third-party weapon book that tackles a wide variety of real-life oddball weapons. The book in itself is pretty good. But what I hate about it are the weapon illustrations don't provide you with a scale. That makes it really hard to figure out what they look like.
Additionally, the weapons are so strange that a line drawing just doesn't help me "see" the weapon in use. I can't tell how they're supposed to be held or used, so it's very frustrating.
The coolest book I ever found on weapons was The Diagram Group's "Weapons: An International Encyclopedia from 5000 BC to 2000 AD". (ISBN 0-312-03950-6, softcover $22.95)
It's a big thick book that illustrates a good percentage of all the real-life weapons used from way back when to just about now. It's very helpful in that it gives great, scaled drawing with infoboxes on many of the weapons talking about their origins and uses. Check it out! I found it in Borders.
If it were wholly converted into a statted gaming supplement, I bet it would sell really well!

 

[wingsandsword]

A weapon like the Dire Flail, which is virtually impossible to wield if it existed, or spiked armor that would be almost as dangerous to the wearer as the enemy is hard for some people to accept.

The existence of powerful, meddling gods, of magic and powerful monsters doesn't stretch suspension of disbelief, but nonmagical, non-extraordinary items PC's could use everyday that are physically impossible do break suspension of disbelief for many.

As was noted above, Darth Maul's double-bladed lightsaber is a good example of cool mixed with realism, since the design was specifically made so that it could be actually wielded.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Spiked armor never evolved in the RW because we never faced significant numbers of critters big enough to grapple us or swallow us whole...unlike the typical FRPG world.

And it is entirely possible to design a set that is not dangerous to its wearer- the spikes would be kept to under 6" in length, and could only be on certain surfaces (like the outsides of the arms, or the upper back), not all over like a porcupine.

OTOH, I was always bugged by the double lightsaber- I can't imagine the amount of training it would take to become proficient in a weapon that essentially seperates matter- or at least flesh- at an atomic level...and is meant to be whipped around the wielder's body and limbs.

Move from the practice weapons to the real thing before you're ready, and all of a sudden, you're Sith Lord Stumpy.

 

[Friadoc]

One key factor, at least for a weapon like the lightsaber/double-bladed lightsaber, is that the wielder is also, normally, very skilled in both the weapon AND the Force.

In fact, at least via canon, the only time we see a non-Force lightsaber wielder, it's Grevious and he replaced said skill and attunement with mechanical ability.

As for the other weapons and fantasy elements, aside from the obvious suspension of disbelief due to the setting being a magical fantasy setting, we're talking about people who devote their lives to their trade.

One huge issue, at least for those of us in the real world, is it's a world hard for most of us to picture, although we can imagine it.

I mean, these 'people', NPC and PC, devote their whole being, every fiber of it, to work whatever skillset that their class demands of it.

In reality we all know that 'guy' or 'girl' who is a person like that, you know the guru/ubergeek, or the genius, or sports stud, et ceteras, but most of us are not like that, even though we'd like to be.

Heck, my real job is not RPG freelancing, it's computer support, a job that I'm good at, but sadly loathe. If it was a passion, I'd probably be awesome at it, but it's just the day job, which pays for what I need in order to do what I like, writing for and about RPGs.

My actual dream job is getting to the point where I'm skilled enough and have enough credits to actually do developer work, although I've done design, I think I'd be better as a developer aiding the designers.

Anyhow, back on topic....

One factor that I think gets forgotten is that the PCs and NPCs exist in a world where they are devoted to their skills, they've all the time in the world to work them, perfect, them, and use them.

I know, in reality, when I look back at the American Frontier, British Colonies, or Old World Exploration, at the things they did, the skills they had, it's just amazing to think about since I know many people today couldn't just do that. In fact, it almost seems unreal, even though we all know it was real.

 

[Vocenoctum]

The only weapon art that bugged me was the Hooked Hammer of the Hearthfire.

I see the hook, but where's the HAMMER?

The worst part is they reprinted the picture in MIC (originally from Complete Divine) without noticing the fact it's completely wrong.

 

[frankthedm]

The PHB axes were really bad Illos IMHO.

 

[FireLance]

Spiked armor never evolved in the RW because we never faced significant numbers of critters big enough to grapple us or swallow us whole...unlike the typical FRPG world.

In fact, I recall at least one folk tale in which a knight had to fight a dragon-like creature that constricted its prey, and had a suit of spiked armor made to counter this tactic.

 

[FireLance]

I'm of the firm opinion that people who complain about any aspect of D&D not being "realistic" are missing the point. They need to go back to the AD&D 1e DMG and read what Gary had to say about what the primary design goals of the game are (and always have been), and which force wins out when Fun collides with Reality [Hint: It's not Reality].

I don't think it's a conflict between Fun and Reality. Rather, it's a conflict between two different types of creativity. David Eddings touched on it early in his book Belgarath the Sorcerer, when Belmakor (a Melcene) and Belsambar (an Angarak) were arguing about the construction of Beldin's tower.

Belmakor's approach was to start with the construction materials available, and to work out what he could do with them. I would peg this as the engineer's approach.

On the other hand, Belsambar started with the idea of what he wanted, and then tried to find ways to make it work. I would peg this as the artist's approach.

Of course, as a sorcerer, Belmakor had the advantage of being able to bend reality to get it to do what he wanted. And, while we can't get away with it in the real world, we can bend reality in our games if we want to (and really, it's fine if you don't). Just call it special training, superhuman skill, the Force, ki, latent magic or psionic ability, etc.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

post 7

I'm not suggesting that quasi real fantasy weapons and armor shouldn't be in rpg books. far from it. I just think that some of the artists that wtc used before, didn't have experience drawing weapons and armor, so from the get go It was hard to exaggerate something that they may have been ignorant of. I agree exaggeration is very impotent in art. Actually i agree with your whole post, I just don't agree that the phb and some other art that wtc has ok'd into their book are good examples of what you talked about.

I'm all about the 'COOL' reaction. I don't mind fullblades or spiked chains or spiked armor. I just think that their spiked armor and spiked chains don't have good art examples (although i did see a awesome spiked chain in some d&d book with very cool spiked chain foreshortening).

In my opinion, It doesn't need to be physically possible, but it should at least have good anatomy that is suggestive that it could be real.

*clarified first sentence*

 

[frankthedm]

In fact, I recall at least one folk tale in which a knight had to fight a dragon-like creature that constricted its prey, and had a suit of spiked armor made to counter this tactic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambton_Worm

TBH, the rules for spiked armor downplay both the inconveniences of having the spikes and how dangerous the spikes should be to those constricting the wearer.