D&D (2024) Weapon Mastery: would it be simpler if it was just battlemasters maneuvers at-will without adding dice bonus?

[mellored]

Hmmm, I think I will allow them to switch on each attack. It makes having extra attacks mean something a bit more interesting for the fighter. I was having trouble with all martials getting weapon masteries, but this idea fixes that for me I think. It makes the fighter a bit more special as, well, a fighter! Thank you!

Make sure they chose before the attack. Not choosing Graze if they miss.

 

[mellored]

Why not just enjoy being able to use Pushing Attack and Topple together?

Topple + Push on attack of every round, including action surge? That would be too much.

But topple one attack and push the next would probably be fine.

 

[Horwath]

Topple + Push on attack of every round, including action surge? That would be too much.

But topple one attack and push the next would probably be fine.

yes, I can see how having topple and push on one attack on 9th level fighter will break the game. Not!

 

[mellored]

yes, I can see how having topple and push on one attack on 9th level fighter will break the game. Not!

I'm more worried about level 11, and the speed of play.

Fighter: 11+9 = 20, does that hit?
DM: yes
Fighter: 10 damage and i topple, roll a save
DM: 15+3 = 18, does that save?
Fighter: yes. I then push though the cloud of dagger
Wizard: 4d4 = 12 damage

Fighter: 14+9 = 13, does that hit?
DM: yes
Fighter: 9 damage and i topple, roll a save
DM: 3+3 = 6, does that save?
Fighter: no. I then push though the cloud of dagger
Wizard: 4d4 = 13 damage

Fighter: 18+9 = 27, does that hit?
DM: yes
Fighter: 14 damage and i topple, roll a save
DM: 3+3 = 6, does that save?
Fighter: no. I then push though the cloud of dagger
Wizard: 4d4 = 9 damage

Fighter, going to action surge

Barbarian: ....

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Topple + Push on attack of every round, including action surge? That would be too much.

But topple one attack and push the next would probably be fine.

We're talking about 1 Weapon Mastery that is at-will, and 1 Battlemaster Maneuver that has limited uses. It's fine.

 

[Horwath]

I'm more worried about level 11, and the speed of play.

Fighter: 11+9 = 20, does that hit?
DM: yes
Fighter: 10 damage and i topple, roll a save
DM: 15+3 = 18, does that save?
Fighter: yes. I then push though the cloud of dagger
Wizard: 4d4 = 12 damage

Fighter: 14+9 = 13, does that hit?
DM: yes
Fighter: 9 damage and i topple, roll a save
DM: 3+3 = 6, does that save?
Fighter: no. I then push though the cloud of dagger
Wizard: 4d4 = 13 damage

Fighter: 18+9 = 27, does that hit?
DM: yes
Fighter: 14 damage and i topple, roll a save
DM: 3+3 = 6, does that save?
Fighter: no. I then push though the cloud of dagger
Wizard: 4d4 = 9 damage

Fighter, going to action surge

Barbarian: ....

still 20x faster than average caster player looking at the character sheet and thinking what spell to cast and mandatory reading spell description again because not knowing what all spells do what you have prepared for the day.

it's fine, only adds one extra damage roll that lasts 2 seconds to roll and apply.
Topple is more of a general problem as it generates extra roll per attack whatever you do with whatever class.
maybe if should be: if you beat AC by 5, you can knock your target down. Also on critical, no matter the attack roll.

 

[Horwath]

Make sure they chose before the attack. Not choosing Graze if they miss.

This would be a non issue at that level.
it's +2 damage per attack on average.
But, I do not like damage on a miss, maybe add that you need to miss by 5 or less to apply.
This would still count on high AC, applying disadvantage on attacker and seeking cover and would punish really low attack rolls.

 

[mellored]

We're talking about 1 Weapon Mastery that is at-will, and 1 Battlemaster Maneuver that has limited uses. It's fine.

Yea, that would be fine.

I thought you ment 2 effects for every single attack, plus battlemaster.

 

[Pauln6]

Personally I don't think barbarians, Rogues, or Paladins should get weapon masteries as level 1 class features. Rangers and monks need a bit of a boost. Barbarians, Rogues, and Paladins do not. As an alternative, we could include gaining a weapon mastery as a fighting style, which would also then be available as a feat. I don't think a class feature designed to make fighters more interesting should be dished out to classes that are already interesting and already powerful.

There is precedent. 1e fighters and rangers were the only classes to get weapon specialisation.

 

[Weiley31]

Honestly, I think the Heroes of Krynn Revisited UA had the right idea with having a Background+Feat giving/providing Battlemaster Maneuvers to more Martials was my fave method of doing it.

Yeah, you were using the Battlemaster's schtick, buuuuuuuuut.............The Battlemaster had the potential to have the MOST usage of the Combat Maneuvers still while also being the ONLY one whose Superiority Die would upgrade/increase its Die Steps if you combined the Background/Feat together.

Meanwhile, everybody else was stuck with a D6 for their Superiority Die IIRC and could at least upgrade it to a D8 by taking the appropriate feat. Still, you could have Paladins and Fighters(other subclasses) with Combat Maneuvers. I see nothing wrong with extending such a thing to the other Martials as well.