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<blockquote data-quote="Water Bob" data-source="post: 5567029" data-attributes="member: 92305"><p>I'm not sure I know the difference between a free immediate attack and an AoO. I thought they were the same thing.</p><p> </p><p>There is no "provoking" the attack. It occurs when damage rolled from an elligble weapon is "1".</p><p> </p><p>So, in order to get the extra attack, the attacker has to hit then roll minimum damage. When those circumstances occur (shouldn't be that often), the free attack is unleashed.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Example:</p><p> </p><p>Dod the Elf fighter is using a longsword. Brae the female human ranger is using a dagger. </p><p> </p><p>Under the rules I posted above, both weapons would be elligible for the Speed Attack.</p><p> </p><p>Dod has initiative. He strikes and hits. He rolls d8 for damage getting a "5" plus his other damage bonuses. Brae removes the hit points. No extra attack for Dod.</p><p> </p><p>Brae's turn. She swings with her dagger and hits. She rolls d4 for damage, getting a "1" plus her other damage bonuses. She's now elligble for the extra attack, and she takes it immediately.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Yes, d20 Conan is a 3.5 clone. Some things are changed, but not that.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>That's a good question and an example of the reason I post these things here--to have good minds who know the game look over the rules.</p><p> </p><p>I think this is a matter of taste. If the Speed Attack is a true AoO, then a character can only take advantage of one AoO per round (unless he has Combat Reflexes).</p><p> </p><p>Do we want to limit the Speed Attacks like that?</p><p> </p><p>I don't think so. I think they're already rare enough.</p><p> </p><p>Therefore, the answer to your question above is that the Speed Attack is not a true AoO. It is not provoked. It is triggered by an event on the dice. And, a character can take advantage of more than one Speed Attack in a round.</p><p> </p><p>I think the chance that a character with two weapons will get an extra attack through the Speed Attack rule is very rare, even if a character uses two daggers, one in each hand.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>This brings up a possible unintended consquence: If a character does use two daggers, are his extra attacks that he does get make the game unbalanced? Or, is this a "good" thing, makeing fighting with daggers an attractive option?</p><p> </p><p>I tend towards the latter opinion, but game play testing may prove otherwise. If so, then we may want to look at makeing the Speed Attack a true AoO. That will take the power out of using two daggers (if it proves to be unbalancing).</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Why not?</p><p> </p><p>I think they'd be elligible.</p><p> </p><p>But, I think a shield bash would not be elligible as it is hard to quickly hit someone with your shield twice.</p><p> </p><p>The weapon needs to be capable of two quick hits or thrusts.</p><p> </p><p>BTW, I like how this rule makes a spear a tad more useful. In history, so many cultures use the spear, yet in vanilla D&D (as opposed to Conan, where weapon damage on almost all weapons is increased over their D&D counterparts), the spear is rarely a top choice of players.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Yes. It is a function of that weapon's ease of use and maneuverability in combat. The weapon on which the "1" damage is thrown is the weapon that must be used for the free Speed Attack.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Good question. Let's make the Speed Attack an Immediate Action. Therefore, it's free, doesn't count towards actions, and won't interfere with other Standard or Full Actions.</p><p> </p><p>Can you foresee a problem looking at it like this?</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>No. It must be the same attack. We're simulating a quick, double-jab. That's why two-handed Martial Weapons are not elligble. They're too big and heavy to wield that way.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>You can keep on rolling Speed Attacks as long as you hit and roll "1" on damage. It will be a rare, rare day where a character gets two Speed Attacks in a row, statistically speaking.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>See my "Common Sense" post. If you don't think a weapon can be used quickly for two quick strikes, then remove it from the elligibility list.</p><p> </p><p>But, also keep in mind that the original "Speed" rule from 1E AD&D made it possible for almost every weapon to get in a second attack, as long as one weapon was significanlty smaller than the other (Speed Factors were compared).</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Because most characters will not be proficient with them, and I think proficiency is a requirement for the Speed Attack.</p><p> </p><p>Again, the Common Sense rule may apply here. If there's an exotic dagger that a character is proficient with, then the DM should rule that its elligble for the Speed Attack.</p><p> </p><p>Remember, the more damage a weapon does, the less likely it will score a Speed Attack. The weapon that does 1d4 damage is twice as likely to score a Speed Attack as the weapon that does 1d8 damage.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>I just thought this up today. If you've got input, ideas, comments, then, please, let's hear them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Water Bob, post: 5567029, member: 92305"] I'm not sure I know the difference between a free immediate attack and an AoO. I thought they were the same thing. There is no "provoking" the attack. It occurs when damage rolled from an elligble weapon is "1". So, in order to get the extra attack, the attacker has to hit then roll minimum damage. When those circumstances occur (shouldn't be that often), the free attack is unleashed. Example: Dod the Elf fighter is using a longsword. Brae the female human ranger is using a dagger. Under the rules I posted above, both weapons would be elligible for the Speed Attack. Dod has initiative. He strikes and hits. He rolls d8 for damage getting a "5" plus his other damage bonuses. Brae removes the hit points. No extra attack for Dod. Brae's turn. She swings with her dagger and hits. She rolls d4 for damage, getting a "1" plus her other damage bonuses. She's now elligble for the extra attack, and she takes it immediately. Yes, d20 Conan is a 3.5 clone. Some things are changed, but not that. That's a good question and an example of the reason I post these things here--to have good minds who know the game look over the rules. I think this is a matter of taste. If the Speed Attack is a true AoO, then a character can only take advantage of one AoO per round (unless he has Combat Reflexes). Do we want to limit the Speed Attacks like that? I don't think so. I think they're already rare enough. Therefore, the answer to your question above is that the Speed Attack is not a true AoO. It is not provoked. It is triggered by an event on the dice. And, a character can take advantage of more than one Speed Attack in a round. I think the chance that a character with two weapons will get an extra attack through the Speed Attack rule is very rare, even if a character uses two daggers, one in each hand. This brings up a possible unintended consquence: If a character does use two daggers, are his extra attacks that he does get make the game unbalanced? Or, is this a "good" thing, makeing fighting with daggers an attractive option? I tend towards the latter opinion, but game play testing may prove otherwise. If so, then we may want to look at makeing the Speed Attack a true AoO. That will take the power out of using two daggers (if it proves to be unbalancing). Why not? I think they'd be elligible. But, I think a shield bash would not be elligible as it is hard to quickly hit someone with your shield twice. The weapon needs to be capable of two quick hits or thrusts. BTW, I like how this rule makes a spear a tad more useful. In history, so many cultures use the spear, yet in vanilla D&D (as opposed to Conan, where weapon damage on almost all weapons is increased over their D&D counterparts), the spear is rarely a top choice of players. Yes. It is a function of that weapon's ease of use and maneuverability in combat. The weapon on which the "1" damage is thrown is the weapon that must be used for the free Speed Attack. Good question. Let's make the Speed Attack an Immediate Action. Therefore, it's free, doesn't count towards actions, and won't interfere with other Standard or Full Actions. Can you foresee a problem looking at it like this? No. It must be the same attack. We're simulating a quick, double-jab. That's why two-handed Martial Weapons are not elligble. They're too big and heavy to wield that way. You can keep on rolling Speed Attacks as long as you hit and roll "1" on damage. It will be a rare, rare day where a character gets two Speed Attacks in a row, statistically speaking. See my "Common Sense" post. If you don't think a weapon can be used quickly for two quick strikes, then remove it from the elligibility list. But, also keep in mind that the original "Speed" rule from 1E AD&D made it possible for almost every weapon to get in a second attack, as long as one weapon was significanlty smaller than the other (Speed Factors were compared). Because most characters will not be proficient with them, and I think proficiency is a requirement for the Speed Attack. Again, the Common Sense rule may apply here. If there's an exotic dagger that a character is proficient with, then the DM should rule that its elligble for the Speed Attack. Remember, the more damage a weapon does, the less likely it will score a Speed Attack. The weapon that does 1d4 damage is twice as likely to score a Speed Attack as the weapon that does 1d8 damage. I just thought this up today. If you've got input, ideas, comments, then, please, let's hear them. [/QUOTE]
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