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<blockquote data-quote="Water Bob" data-source="post: 5569779" data-attributes="member: 92305">I think I dig the second rule better. I think it will &quot;play&quot; better.&nbsp;I do miss what Jimlock is saying, though. He's basically saying that it's &quot;cool&quot; that an punch get a Speed Attack more often than a dagger, and a dagger will get a Speed Attack more often than a short sword. But, with my new rule, they're all three light weapons and will get the same number of Speed Attacks.&nbsp;I was thinking of calling the new rule: &quot;A Fifteen&quot;. We've got &quot;Taking Twenty&quot; and &quot;Taken Ten&quot; and a &quot;Critical Threat&quot; and a &quot;Critical Hit&quot;.&nbsp;A Fifteen would be a speed attack (if I go with the option to have a natural &quot;15&quot; on the dice indicating a speed attack).&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Here's an idea. Let me see what you think of this.&nbsp;We'll make the Speed Attack roll akin to a Critical Hit throw.&nbsp;How do we make Critical Hit throws? We roll a Critical Threat, then we make a check to see the Critical Hit occurs. Right?&nbsp;How about a new thought....&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;WEAPON SPEED IDEA #3&nbsp;What if we combined ideas from the first two Weapon Speed ideas I've had. &nbsp;Consider this: A natural &quot;15&quot; on the attack throw indicates a Speed Attack may occur. With the second idea, this is where we compared size categories to see if a speed attack happens.&nbsp;Instead of doing the comparison, let's just look at the damage on that first attack. If it's the highest amount of damage possible on the damage die throw, then a second speed attack is allowed.&nbsp;That second part serves the same function as the Critical Hit check after a Critical Threat is rolled.&nbsp;Neat idea?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;EXAMPLE 1&nbsp;Bedro the Zingaran is fighting with a stiletto. That weapon, like a dagger, does 1d4 damage.&nbsp;On Bedro's attack throw, he d20 shows a natural 15. A speed attack is possible.&nbsp;Speed Attacks aren't possible unless the first attack hits. So, if a combatant can't hit a target with a 15+ throw, then no Speed Attacks are possible against that foe. The foe is too armored or too quick or just too good for Bedro to get in a quick second jab.&nbsp;Bedro needs a 17 to hit, but with his natural 15 on his d20 roll, plus his STR modifier, he rolls a total of 18. &nbsp;This means that a Speed Attack is possible.&nbsp;Bedro rolls damage. The d4 shows a &quot;4&quot; on the damage die. That's our Speed check. Bedro does get another Speed attack.&nbsp;So, we go right into the second attack.&nbsp;This is an exploding die situation, so if Bedro rolls exactly 15 on a the Speed Attack, then rolls a 4 on his d4 damage die, he'll get a third attack, and so on.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Note that with this third idea for weapon speed, we're back to the first idea of having &quot;Speed Weapons&quot; (like &quot;Reach&quot; weapons, or &quot;Finesse&quot; weapons in the Conan game).&nbsp;Which weapons are elligible? Any that the GM thinks shold be elligible.&nbsp;I think most one-handed weapons for which the character has proficiency (disallow the whip and maybe a few other weapons) and two-handed piercing weapons.&nbsp;Regardless, all speed weapons have only 1 damage die (i.e. it can't have 2d4 for damage--those weapons are considered too bulky or otherwise unworthy of being counted as a speed weapon).&nbsp;Your GM may reason different weapons for different reasons.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;OK, folks, what do you think of that idea?&nbsp;I actually like it the best out of the three ideas, as it seems to incorporate the best of both ideas.&nbsp;Comments?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;EDIT:&nbsp; And, I think the fact that the Speed Attack threat, on a natural roll of 15, having a 5% chance of happening, will &quot;fix&quot; any issue some of you had with a 6th level ranger having 3 attacks with a dagger.&nbsp; There's only a 5% chance that a check will be made, but if the check is made, the chance of the speed attack becomes weapon-dependent.&nbsp; Daggers are faster than short swords, and so on.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Water Bob, post: 5569779, member: 92305"] I think I dig the second rule better. I think it will "play" better. I do miss what Jimlock is saying, though. He's basically saying that it's "cool" that an punch get a Speed Attack more often than a dagger, and a dagger will get a Speed Attack more often than a short sword. But, with my new rule, they're all three light weapons and will get the same number of Speed Attacks. I was thinking of calling the new rule: "A Fifteen". We've got "Taking Twenty" and "Taken Ten" and a "Critical Threat" and a "Critical Hit". A Fifteen would be a speed attack (if I go with the option to have a natural "15" on the dice indicating a speed attack). Here's an idea. Let me see what you think of this. We'll make the Speed Attack roll akin to a Critical Hit throw. How do we make Critical Hit throws? We roll a Critical Threat, then we make a check to see the Critical Hit occurs. Right? How about a new thought.... [B][SIZE=4][COLOR=blue]WEAPON SPEED IDEA #3[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] What if we combined ideas from the first two Weapon Speed ideas I've had. Consider this: A natural "15" on the attack throw indicates a Speed Attack may occur. With the second idea, this is where we compared size categories to see if a speed attack happens. Instead of doing the comparison, let's just look at the damage on that first attack. If it's the highest amount of damage possible on the damage die throw, then a second speed attack is allowed. That second part serves the same function as the Critical Hit check after a Critical Threat is rolled. Neat idea? [COLOR=blue][B]EXAMPLE 1[/B][/COLOR] Bedro the Zingaran is fighting with a stiletto. That weapon, like a dagger, does 1d4 damage. On Bedro's attack throw, he d20 shows a natural 15. A speed attack is possible. Speed Attacks aren't possible unless the first attack hits. So, if a combatant can't hit a target with a 15+ throw, then no Speed Attacks are possible against that foe. The foe is too armored or too quick or just too good for Bedro to get in a quick second jab. Bedro needs a 17 to hit, but with his natural 15 on his d20 roll, plus his STR modifier, he rolls a total of 18. This means that a Speed Attack is possible. Bedro rolls damage. The d4 shows a "4" on the damage die. That's our Speed check. Bedro does get another Speed attack. So, we go right into the second attack. This is an exploding die situation, so if Bedro rolls exactly 15 on a the Speed Attack, then rolls a 4 on his d4 damage die, he'll get a third attack, and so on. Note that with this third idea for weapon speed, we're back to the first idea of having "Speed Weapons" (like "Reach" weapons, or "Finesse" weapons in the Conan game). Which weapons are elligible? Any that the GM thinks shold be elligible. I think most one-handed weapons for which the character has proficiency (disallow the whip and maybe a few other weapons) and two-handed piercing weapons. Regardless, all speed weapons have only 1 damage die (i.e. it can't have 2d4 for damage--those weapons are considered too bulky or otherwise unworthy of being counted as a speed weapon). Your GM may reason different weapons for different reasons. OK, folks, what do you think of that idea? I actually like it the best out of the three ideas, as it seems to incorporate the best of both ideas. Comments? EDIT: And, I think the fact that the Speed Attack threat, on a natural roll of 15, having a 5% chance of happening, will "fix" any issue some of you had with a 6th level ranger having 3 attacks with a dagger. There's only a 5% chance that a check will be made, but if the check is made, the chance of the speed attack becomes weapon-dependent. Daggers are faster than short swords, and so on. [/QUOTE]

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