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<blockquote data-quote="Water Bob" data-source="post: 5570060" data-attributes="member: 92305">???&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused&nbsp; &nbsp; :confused:"&nbsp; data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Well, it seems reasonable to me, and that's the assumption of the original 1E AD&amp;D rule that inspired all this--that its easier to speed attack a foe with a two-handed sword than it is a foe that's also using a dagger.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;BTW, I realized a problem with my calculations earlier in the thread.&nbsp; I said the original rule had a 2.7% chance of doing a Speed Attack check.&nbsp; That's not true.&nbsp; 2.7% is the chance for a single double, and there are six doubles that can show on a 2d6 throw.&nbsp;Thus, the chance of doing a speed attack check under the original 1E AD&amp;D rule is 16.2% (round off to 16%).&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;You're not picturing it the way 1E does.&nbsp; The assumption is a big, two-handed sword is heavy and unwieldy.&nbsp; You use it by swinging it in big, powerful arcs.&nbsp; And, it's slow.&nbsp; So, a person with a dagger might find an opportunity to get in there and jab twice while the two-handed users is in mid-arc.&nbsp;Contrast this to a foe also using a dagger.&nbsp; Both are quick.&nbsp; There are no openings like there are with the two-handed users.&nbsp;It's about maneuverablity of the weapon vs. the maneuverability of the other guy's weapon.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Go back and read Gygax's reasoning for the Speed Rule on pg. 66 of the 1E DMG.&nbsp; It makes a lot of sense to me, and it is about one's actual sped with a given weapon.&nbsp;You can simply maneuver, wield, recover, and attack much quicker with a dagger than you can a big, heavy two-handed sword.&nbsp;I like my new rule, too, that I posted above where I limit Speed Weapons to the weight equal to the DEX modifier.&nbsp; That way, speed weapons are limited by how quick and maneuverable the character is.&nbsp;A DEX 18 character could use a heavy, bulky one-handed war hammer as a speed weapon where that weapon would be too heavy, bulky, and unwieldy for a character with DEX 15.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[quote(Each attack roll actually represents &quot;a number of attempts&quot; to get past the opponents defenses)</blockquote>Yes.&nbsp; This is true in D&amp;D and in basic Conan.&nbsp; But, Conan can be played in a simulationist style where each die roll represents an actual swing.&nbsp;In order to do that in D&amp;D, you'd have to change the AC model and have armor soak up damage insted of making a character harder to hit.&nbsp;So...that's one more difference between the Conan game and it's mother game, D&amp;D.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Change to the system?&nbsp; Yes.&nbsp; Radical?&nbsp; That's a matter of opinion.&nbsp;As I said above, the Conan game can be played in a simulationist style where each roll of the die represents one actual swing instead of the usual abstract system used in D&amp;D.&nbsp; This is because, in Conan, you can track every blow, whether it hits, how much damage armor soaked up, if armor was penetrated.&nbsp;Plus, there are tons of Combat Maneuvers in the Conan game, which are like Combat-Focused Feats that any character can use as long as they meet the Maneuver's prerequisites.&nbsp;It's definitley not too complicated to achieve.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I think you're right here.&nbsp;This is a conditional probabilty problem.&nbsp; Probability = the Prob of A x Prob of B given A.&nbsp;If my math is correct, this is Probability = 5% x (.05 * .25)&nbsp;That's way under 1%.&nbsp;Must re-think the &quot;Fifteen&quot;.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Isn't your math off?&nbsp;I think the conditional probability of what I wrote above is correct, and that means the chances of it happening to a dagger are way below 1%.&nbsp;Either way, you're right.&nbsp; I've got to fix that.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;You're mixing up rule 2 and rule 3.&nbsp;There's no comparison in rule 3.&nbsp; The weapon weight designates which weapon a character can use as a Speed Weapon.&nbsp;Thus, with a DEX modifier of +2, the character can use any weapon that weighs 2 lbs or less that he's proficient with.&nbsp;That's it.&nbsp; No comparison in combat.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Maybe.&nbsp; But, maybe not.&nbsp; I like the idea of the check happening on the attack roll.&nbsp; I just need to figure a way to up the chance that it occurs.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE="Water Bob, post: 5570060, member: 92305"] ??? :confused: Well, it seems reasonable to me, and that's the assumption of the original 1E AD&D rule that inspired all this--that its easier to speed attack a foe with a two-handed sword than it is a foe that's also using a dagger. [COLOR=green]BTW, I realized a problem with my calculations earlier in the thread. I said the original rule had a 2.7% chance of doing a Speed Attack check. That's not true. 2.7% is the chance for a single double, and there are six doubles that can show on a 2d6 throw.[/COLOR] [COLOR=green][/COLOR] [COLOR=green]Thus, the chance of doing a speed attack check under the original 1E AD&D rule is 16.2% (round off to 16%).[/COLOR] You're not picturing it the way 1E does. The assumption is a big, two-handed sword is heavy and unwieldy. You use it by swinging it in big, powerful arcs. And, it's slow. So, a person with a dagger might find an opportunity to get in there and jab twice while the two-handed users is in mid-arc. Contrast this to a foe also using a dagger. Both are quick. There are no openings like there are with the two-handed users. It's about maneuverablity of the weapon vs. the maneuverability of the other guy's weapon. Go back and read Gygax's reasoning for the Speed Rule on pg. 66 of the 1E DMG. It makes a lot of sense to me, and it is about one's actual sped with a given weapon. You can simply maneuver, wield, recover, and attack much quicker with a dagger than you can a big, heavy two-handed sword. [COLOR=green]I like my new rule, too, that I posted above where I limit Speed Weapons to the weight equal to the DEX modifier. That way, speed weapons are limited by how quick and maneuverable the character is.[/COLOR] [COLOR=green][/COLOR] [COLOR=green]A DEX 18 character could use a heavy, bulky one-handed war hammer as a speed weapon where that weapon would be too heavy, bulky, and unwieldy for a character with DEX 15.[/COLOR] [quote(Each attack roll actually represents "a number of attempts" to get past the opponents defenses)[/quote] Yes. This is true in D&D and in basic Conan. But, Conan can be played in a simulationist style where each die roll represents an actual swing. In order to do that in D&D, you'd have to change the AC model and have armor soak up damage insted of making a character harder to hit. So...that's one more difference between the Conan game and it's mother game, D&D. Change to the system? Yes. Radical? That's a matter of opinion. As I said above, the Conan game can be played in a simulationist style where each roll of the die represents one actual swing instead of the usual abstract system used in D&D. This is because, in Conan, you can track every blow, whether it hits, how much damage armor soaked up, if armor was penetrated. Plus, there are tons of Combat Maneuvers in the Conan game, which are like Combat-Focused Feats that any character can use as long as they meet the Maneuver's prerequisites. It's definitley not too complicated to achieve. I think you're right here. This is a conditional probabilty problem. Probability = the Prob of A x Prob of B given A. If my math is correct, this is Probability = 5% x (.05 * .25) That's way under 1%. Must re-think the "Fifteen". Isn't your math off? I think the conditional probability of what I wrote above is correct, and that means the chances of it happening to a dagger are way below 1%. Either way, you're right. I've got to fix that. You're mixing up rule 2 and rule 3. There's no comparison in rule 3. The weapon weight designates which weapon a character can use as a Speed Weapon. Thus, with a DEX modifier of +2, the character can use any weapon that weighs 2 lbs or less that he's proficient with. That's it. No comparison in combat. Maybe. But, maybe not. I like the idea of the check happening on the attack roll. I just need to figure a way to up the chance that it occurs. [/QUOTE]

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