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<blockquote data-quote="deleteme123456" data-source="post: 4418527" data-attributes="member: 65832">OK I double-checked all the math and found that there are definite advantages to still having 2 +2s, but very little benefit from having just one vs having none, if the 2nd is in a dump stat. This means (for example), a DBorn TWF Ranger is basically as good as an Eladrin TWF Ranger (if you consider Dex a useful stat for Blades, etc.)That all assumes you're aiming for the traditional and popular 18/16/14 type builds. For classes with a real need for 3 (or more!) attributes, 16/16/16 may be more popular. Consider the Paladin who wants STR WIS and CHA to all start at 16 or higher.Original point buy (control):DBorn: 16/13/10/8/16/16Eladrin: Impossible to get 3 16s. Can so 16/11/12/10/13/16 as one alternative.Elf: Still can't do it. 16/11/12/8/15/16.We'll use the DBorn's array as the target, sacrificing CON first and WIS 2nd if short, boosting CON first if we have extra (since we won't have enough to boost STR WIS or CHA).Modified point buy:DBorn 16/14/10/8/16/16&nbsp;&nbsp; costs 28 (7 + 5 + 0 + 0 + 9 + 7). Improvement is small but noticable: +1 CON.Eladrin: 16/11/12/10/16/16&nbsp;&nbsp; costs 28 (9 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 9 + 9). This is a HUGE improvement over original point-buy with +2 WIS.Elf: 16/13/12/8/16/16&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; costs 28 (9 + 3 + 0 + 0 + 7 + 9). Still a nice improvement, with an additional +1 CON and +1 WIS Dwarf (how does a +2 in your 4th most important stat help?): 16/14/10/8/16/16 costs 28 (9 + 3 + 0 + 0 + 7 + 9). Same as the DBorn now.Definitely allows for more balanced/MAD characters this way, and 16/16/16/14/10/8 is a very nice array for them if they have 2 +2s in those 16 OR 14 stats. Previous best was 16/16/15/14/10/8 with the +2s in the 16s or 15. So you can get an additional +1 modifier and you just need your +2s in any of 4 stats? Well, I guess if you really don't want race to matter... or you really crank up the power of the racial feats (which is even more power creep)... then I guess this certainly does that.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="deleteme123456, post: 4418527, member: 65832"] OK I double-checked all the math and found that there are definite advantages to still having 2 +2s, but very little benefit from having just one vs having none, if the 2nd is in a dump stat. This means (for example), a DBorn TWF Ranger is basically as good as an Eladrin TWF Ranger (if you consider Dex a useful stat for Blades, etc.) That all assumes you're aiming for the traditional and popular 18/16/14 type builds. For classes with a real need for 3 (or more!) attributes, 16/16/16 may be more popular. Consider the Paladin who wants STR WIS and CHA to all start at 16 or higher. Original point buy (control): DBorn: 16/13/10/8/16/16 Eladrin: Impossible to get 3 16s. Can so 16/11/12/10/13/16 as one alternative. Elf: Still can't do it. 16/11/12/8/15/16. We'll use the DBorn's array as the target, sacrificing CON first and WIS 2nd if short, boosting CON first if we have extra (since we won't have enough to boost STR WIS or CHA). Modified point buy: DBorn 16/14/10/8/16/16 costs 28 (7 + 5 + 0 + 0 + 9 + 7). Improvement is small but noticable: +1 CON. Eladrin: 16/11/12/10/16/16 costs 28 (9 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 9 + 9). This is a HUGE improvement over original point-buy with +2 WIS. Elf: 16/13/12/8/16/16 costs 28 (9 + 3 + 0 + 0 + 7 + 9). Still a nice improvement, with an additional +1 CON and +1 WIS Dwarf (how does a +2 in your 4th most important stat help?): 16/14/10/8/16/16 costs 28 (9 + 3 + 0 + 0 + 7 + 9). Same as the DBorn now. Definitely allows for more balanced/MAD characters this way, and 16/16/16/14/10/8 is a very nice array for them if they have 2 +2s in those 16 OR 14 stats. Previous best was 16/16/15/14/10/8 with the +2s in the 16s or 15. So you can get an additional +1 modifier and you just need your +2s in any of 4 stats? Well, I guess if you really don't want race to matter... or you really crank up the power of the racial feats (which is even more power creep)... then I guess this certainly does that. [/QUOTE]

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