It was a dumb example to use, and she got teased about her media training for it, but I can’t fault her for accidentally using a dumb example when I mess up my examples all the time. Who hasn’t done public speaking and mentally kicked themselves for saying something weird on accident?
Weird Orgy comment on DnD Beyond Home Page Video
Fundamentally, I don’t disagree with anyone that’s saying that they have a right to protect their kids. I also think that more needs to be done to protect children as there are a lot of bad things in the world.
That said, I think there’s an order of magnitude that needs to be reached before we start having that discussion. If any parent tried to tell me that what Kate specifically said reached that threat level, then I’d start thinking that the greater threat to the child, was actually the moral compass of the parent making that argument.
Let’s be rational with this thread please and try to keep the replies in line with what actually happened.
Be well
KB
That said, I think there’s an order of magnitude that needs to be reached before we start having that discussion. If any parent tried to tell me that what Kate specifically said reached that threat level, then I’d start thinking that the greater threat to the child, was actually the moral compass of the parent making that argument.
Let’s be rational with this thread please and try to keep the replies in line with what actually happened.
Be well
KB
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
This isn't an "I'm offended" issue. This is an "This video was labelled as child-friendly, and turned out to not be". IE an error was pointed out. And now it's corrected with a change in the settings. But...sorry it bothered you that you thought people were offended? We'll...try to be more sensitive of your feelings concerning your lack of concern for people being offended when they're not?
You have an absolute right to raise your children as you see fit. I haven’t seen anyone question that. But I feel that the folks that are going to agree with you about the use of the word orgy are going to be more conservative than the average and likely share a common geography with you.
No disrespect meant, but I’m heavily libertarian, I’m just not as conservative. My son was taught sexual function at a young age and exposed to folks in healthy relationships throughout his life. Now that he’s in high school, the only kids I’m seeing that are getting knocked up are the ones who were sheltered to begin with and didn’t know how to protect themselves.
Not judging you. I don’t know you. You’re likely a great parent. There’s just a lot of nuance here and what Kate did isn’t serious enough to even be having this convo in response.
Be well
KB
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
There are controls now for parents to restrict access on YouTube to pre-vetted material that is appropriate for kids. Most parents of younger kids know this. The first step to getting those is in the uploaders tagging.
They control the tags for it. Normally they list it as kid friendly. This one has now been re-tagged as adult. You don't have to sympathize with it, but this is how YouTube works. You pick a setting when you upload the video, and their rules require you to make it accurate, and you can get punished for falsely tagging it. So, pretty sure this is not an issue of your sympathy.
I am sorry you were triggered by this. Nobody was looking to make you emotional and upset over this issue
By the way, from my perspective almost all the moralizing in this thread is from folks like you claiming they know what's best for other people's kids and that parents are wrong to think they should mention this sort of issue to begin with. I mean, know you don't think you're moralizing...but you are. None of those parents were looking to advise you on how best to raise your kids. That was all you guys. All they asked for was properly labelled stuff so they could make that decision for their family. Nobody asked what you guys thought of their private decisions concerning their family, but you and several people who are like-minded decided to tell "those moralizers" (without noticing the irony in what you're doing) that they're "wrong" in their choices.
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I don't think this is a big deal. D&D modules have curtains made out of flayed skin, Ras Nsi has a harem, the Atropal is an undead fetus, etc. I don't think kids who play D&D and read the D&D website are going to disturbed by the word orgy. It's one thing to play D&D with young kids, but once your kids go online and start googling D&D stuff, even reading official D&D products, there is no telling what they will encounter.
Warpiglet
Adventurer
Well appreciate the lack of judgment but frankly as soon as you start saying who gets in the most trouble in high school and the geography of presumably like minded people it's a bit contradictory.
Nonetheless, I have no shame about my values or the fact some scoff at them. I think I am right as do you. You seem ok with yours too.
Where we might agree is in the fact that WOTC does not need to be responsible for raising people's kids and that D&D would suck if watered down or sanitized. I change the game if playing with kids--that is my best judgment for how I do things in my home.
As to the orgy thing...wasn't shocked. It's milder than the jokes we tell at the table. If they errantly labeled the video kid friendly they should probably change it but whatever.
happens. It won't stop me from supporting the hobby and WOTC.
MNblockhead
A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
Thanks all for your responses, both the jokes and the more serious discussion. I appreciate both.
Here are my clarifications, conclusions, and random thoughts.
1. I didn't get to the video via YouTube. I got to the video from the Home Page of DnD Beyond.
It is a service I've paid a lot of money for. I let my son set up an account an have access to my purchased content. He prefers using DnD Beyond to build his characters and has even gotten into making his own homebrew monsters on DnD Beyond. Until that video, I never thought much about monitoring the content on that site. To be clear, my reaction was not one of great offense, get the pitchforks! No, it was simply, huh--maybe I need to monitor this site more.
2. I liked the video
Personally, I enjoyed the video and thought the "weird orgy" remark was funny. It just seemed out of place for a video highlighted on their landing page.
3. For a 13+ site--not a big deal, but is something that does call for some parental scrutiny
I realize it was an off-hand, non-explicit joke. But I think that I am well within the mainstream when it comes to my knee-jerk reaction. Again, my knee-jerk wasn't "orgies are evil, burn the site to the ground." It was simply, hmm, this may not be a family friendly site and I need to think about whether I should monitor it more if I'm going to let my kid use it.
I guarantee that if I make that same joke to another parent while in front of someone else's kids, there is a good chance I'll be called out on it.
4. I agree that you can explain these things to pre-teens
By age 13, at least in my part of the United States, kids have already had some sex education. My kids have friends with gay parents and they have a gay aunt. They understand what homosexuality is and see it as not common, but not strange, weird, or wrong. My kids are non-circumcised in a part of the United States where the majority of boys still are--so we've discussed that. I have a transgender player in one of the games I run at home. So my wife and I have had that discussion with the kids.
I have not had either son ask me what an orgy is yet, but if one did, I would simply explain to him that it is when a group of consenting adults have sex together. I'm pretty sure he would say ick, roll his eyes, and laugh at the idea and then move on to talk about something that actually interests him. So, yes, I agree. You can talk to kids about these things. BUT I WOULD ALSO ASK "where did you hear about orgies?" I would expect it to be something some friend said or something he heard older kids joke about at school. I would not expect it to be from a video interview with a WotC game designer on Why DnD is so Memorable on the home page of DnD Beyond. It would make me think about whether it is a site I want him to have access to.
5. There are a lot of mature themes in DnD, even in core books -- so what should a parent's expectations be?
Is a joke about "weird orgies" that surprising when the Monster Manual describes Succubi and Incubi "lurk[ing] next to a mortal’s bedside and whisper[ing] forbidden pleasures. Sleeping victims are tempted to give in to their darkest desires, indulge in taboos, and feed forbidden appetites. As the fiend fills the victim’s dreams with debauched images, the victim becomes more susceptible to temptation in everyday life." I let my kids read the monster manual, so why should I have an issue with the video. I guess it was just not expected and it is also more explicit as it used a work that references a specific a sex activity rather than skirting around the topic.
Parents do need to understand that D&D is primarily targeted at older teens and adults. So, I do think it is fair for people to tell me that any surprise at this one video is misplaced if you know anything about D&D, both official and fan content.
6. Yes, I do understand I'm a hypocrite
It is hard to be 100% consistent in your parenting. I don't want to ban video games, but I want to control screen time. I don't want them to use curse words, but I'm not particularly concerned with them hearing it. You don't want to prohibit the use of social media, but you know the dangers and pitfalls and need some level of monitoring and limits. And you are going to have rules in your home that their friend's parents don't have in theirs.
Most thoughtful parents will have to constantly measure their reactions. You have to. The measures keep changing. And your kids are changing and growing older. There are language and jokes in movies that my son has seen that are far more explicit than anything in official DnD material. But I know it is there, I expect it, I'm used to it, and the industry at least has a rating system to help make some informed parenting decisions. When you don't expect it--it is going to make you scrutinize the source more than you would other content.
If you are not careful, however, it can lead to a situation that many comics are familiar with. Selective outrage. I can laugh along as you joke about all manner of topics until you hit a sore spot. There are lots of things in the game that I know will bother other parents that don't bother me. I don't have an issue with language in the Players Handbook that discuss not needing to be confined to binary notions of sex and gender. I don't, for the most part, have a problem the fighting, violence, and killing in the game. The demons and devils don't bother me, because I don't believe they are any more real than beholders and illithids. So it does seem to be strangely selective to be questioning a throw-away orgy joke.
I'm not going to remove my kid's access to DnD Beyond because of this. Actually, nothing will change, other than I'll pay more attention to the content published on DnD Beyond.
Here are my clarifications, conclusions, and random thoughts.
1. I didn't get to the video via YouTube. I got to the video from the Home Page of DnD Beyond.
It is a service I've paid a lot of money for. I let my son set up an account an have access to my purchased content. He prefers using DnD Beyond to build his characters and has even gotten into making his own homebrew monsters on DnD Beyond. Until that video, I never thought much about monitoring the content on that site. To be clear, my reaction was not one of great offense, get the pitchforks! No, it was simply, huh--maybe I need to monitor this site more.
2. I liked the video
Personally, I enjoyed the video and thought the "weird orgy" remark was funny. It just seemed out of place for a video highlighted on their landing page.
3. For a 13+ site--not a big deal, but is something that does call for some parental scrutiny
I realize it was an off-hand, non-explicit joke. But I think that I am well within the mainstream when it comes to my knee-jerk reaction. Again, my knee-jerk wasn't "orgies are evil, burn the site to the ground." It was simply, hmm, this may not be a family friendly site and I need to think about whether I should monitor it more if I'm going to let my kid use it.
I guarantee that if I make that same joke to another parent while in front of someone else's kids, there is a good chance I'll be called out on it.
4. I agree that you can explain these things to pre-teens
By age 13, at least in my part of the United States, kids have already had some sex education. My kids have friends with gay parents and they have a gay aunt. They understand what homosexuality is and see it as not common, but not strange, weird, or wrong. My kids are non-circumcised in a part of the United States where the majority of boys still are--so we've discussed that. I have a transgender player in one of the games I run at home. So my wife and I have had that discussion with the kids.
I have not had either son ask me what an orgy is yet, but if one did, I would simply explain to him that it is when a group of consenting adults have sex together. I'm pretty sure he would say ick, roll his eyes, and laugh at the idea and then move on to talk about something that actually interests him. So, yes, I agree. You can talk to kids about these things. BUT I WOULD ALSO ASK "where did you hear about orgies?" I would expect it to be something some friend said or something he heard older kids joke about at school. I would not expect it to be from a video interview with a WotC game designer on Why DnD is so Memorable on the home page of DnD Beyond. It would make me think about whether it is a site I want him to have access to.
5. There are a lot of mature themes in DnD, even in core books -- so what should a parent's expectations be?
Is a joke about "weird orgies" that surprising when the Monster Manual describes Succubi and Incubi "lurk[ing] next to a mortal’s bedside and whisper[ing] forbidden pleasures. Sleeping victims are tempted to give in to their darkest desires, indulge in taboos, and feed forbidden appetites. As the fiend fills the victim’s dreams with debauched images, the victim becomes more susceptible to temptation in everyday life." I let my kids read the monster manual, so why should I have an issue with the video. I guess it was just not expected and it is also more explicit as it used a work that references a specific a sex activity rather than skirting around the topic.
Parents do need to understand that D&D is primarily targeted at older teens and adults. So, I do think it is fair for people to tell me that any surprise at this one video is misplaced if you know anything about D&D, both official and fan content.
6. Yes, I do understand I'm a hypocrite
It is hard to be 100% consistent in your parenting. I don't want to ban video games, but I want to control screen time. I don't want them to use curse words, but I'm not particularly concerned with them hearing it. You don't want to prohibit the use of social media, but you know the dangers and pitfalls and need some level of monitoring and limits. And you are going to have rules in your home that their friend's parents don't have in theirs.
Most thoughtful parents will have to constantly measure their reactions. You have to. The measures keep changing. And your kids are changing and growing older. There are language and jokes in movies that my son has seen that are far more explicit than anything in official DnD material. But I know it is there, I expect it, I'm used to it, and the industry at least has a rating system to help make some informed parenting decisions. When you don't expect it--it is going to make you scrutinize the source more than you would other content.
If you are not careful, however, it can lead to a situation that many comics are familiar with. Selective outrage. I can laugh along as you joke about all manner of topics until you hit a sore spot. There are lots of things in the game that I know will bother other parents that don't bother me. I don't have an issue with language in the Players Handbook that discuss not needing to be confined to binary notions of sex and gender. I don't, for the most part, have a problem the fighting, violence, and killing in the game. The demons and devils don't bother me, because I don't believe they are any more real than beholders and illithids. So it does seem to be strangely selective to be questioning a throw-away orgy joke.
I'm not going to remove my kid's access to DnD Beyond because of this. Actually, nothing will change, other than I'll pay more attention to the content published on DnD Beyond.
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Well, i read Asterix Comics when i was a kid. The orgies in there were romans eating while they were laying sidewards on their couches instead of sitting at a table.
It had zero offending content (except eventually the weird punishments for someone loosing their piece of bread in the cauldron with the raclette) . And i thought : oh that is a nice idea it surely is comode and when i want to read and eat at the same time the book gets less in the way.
Sad that today with the Internet there is not so much protection anymore. Otoh it kept you pretty retarded when you got to an age where it becomes advantagous to know a bit about these things. Unless you were quite curious and inquisitive and sought for the right books at the public library (like i of course did).
It had zero offending content (except eventually the weird punishments for someone loosing their piece of bread in the cauldron with the raclette) . And i thought : oh that is a nice idea it surely is comode and when i want to read and eat at the same time the book gets less in the way.
Sad that today with the Internet there is not so much protection anymore. Otoh it kept you pretty retarded when you got to an age where it becomes advantagous to know a bit about these things. Unless you were quite curious and inquisitive and sought for the right books at the public library (like i of course did).
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