[WGS]Adjusting Item Creation

[GuardianLurker]

WGS = Wizards got the Shaft!

OK, not that that's out of my system.

Having run the spell progression tables I was struck (yet again) by how far in the dust Sorcs leave Wizards when it comes to spellcasting. Wizards *have* to shell out their precious gold just to keep up! And then there's the spell scribing cost...

Anyway, one of the primary benefits Wizards are supposed to get are the item creation feats (mind they only get 4 bonus feats), which (as many of remarked) cost the poor wizard XP to use...

Having complained - what are you all's opinions on either :
Giving the wizard more bonus feats (maybe 1/4 lv, or 1/3 level),

or reducing the item XP creation costs?

 

[Crothian]

Wizards get 5 bonus feats, one is just picked for them. The wizards ability to potentially learn more spells and has an easier time is huge. Sorcerers spells are so limited by getting so few. It is very difficult to make a sorcerer who can help at many things. Sure, they can cast like a diskens, but so few spells. Wizards also get higher level spells one level earlier. That is very big when adventurering.

Now, I'm not saying your wrong, Wizards are hard to play. THe sheer cost of scribing bancrupts groups. In the game I'm in I think the Wizard has spent about 30% of out cash to scribe spells. And the number is low becasue the amount of ink that is availible has been limited. He has more spells to scribe, no ink to scribe with. I started a thread a few days ago in Rules Forum called Magical Ink to help with this problem. That can be found here:

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18324

Giving more bonus feats I don't think is a bad idea. I'd go with at 4, 8, 12, 16, 20. Then I'd introduce a feat or series of feats that reduces cost of creating items. I'm sure there is such a feat in existance, but I can't say where off the top of my head. I'd allow the feat to be taken as a Wizard bonus feat.

But the most important thing is time. Item creation feats are worthless if no one has the time to use them.

 

[Anubis]

I believe the feat you are seeking is "Magical Artisan" from Forgotten Realms. I don't own that book, but I think I know what it does . . .

If I've heard correctly, you multiple the Market Price of an item by 75% before figuring the costs to create, both in GP and XP.

As an example, if you try to make a Longsword +3, you take the cost to create, 18000, and multiply that by 75% to get 13500. Then you take half that for the GP cost of 6750 and divide it by 25 for the XP cost of 540.

Hope that helps.

Also, the Epic Level Handbook introducing power sharing in which all characters in the party can contribute part of the XP cost as logn as the wizard p-ays at least 25% of the cost. That REALLY helps quite a bit.

 

[GuardianLurker]

Combo Reply

Crothian -
yeah I saw the Magical Ink bit. In my own games I've house ruled the ink to be normal (and thus readily available and significantly cheaper), and I've played in a campaign where the scribing cost was house-ruled to 10 gp/page (and even that was bankrupting my wizard).

Anubis -
since I don't have FRCS (not being a Realms player), I'm not familiar with the feat, but it sounds good.

Actually, the 1/4 feat progression with adding the XP Share feat and the Magical Artisan feat as non-epic wizard bonus feats sounds like a good combination.

Thanks guys.

 

[Crothian]

I believe the feat you are seeking is "Magical Artisan" from Forgotten Realms. I don't own that book, but I think I know what it does . . .

If I've heard correctly, you multiple the Market Price of an item by 75% before figuring the costs to create, both in GP and XP.

That's exactly what it is. THe prerequite is to have the item creation feat you want it to apply to. THe feat can be selected multiple times, each time it has to apply to a different item creation feat.

 

[ScottDM]

I think part of what the cost is meant to do is keep the wizard from being a magic Item vending machine. The EXP cost is representing the wizard putting a little of himself into the items that he makes. But what does the gold represent? I don't have a problem with the EP cost, because lets face it, when you fall behind the rest of the party, its very easy to catch back up, because of how the EP chart works. But if you fall multiple levels behind the party its because you made all those Bazookas of dragon slaying +20.

My problem is with the gold cost and the ease of making the Items. I equate magic Items now to bathtub gin. Anytime, anywhere, as long as it isn't in the plane of pandemonium, a wizard can make an Item. I want a system for differing the cost of magic Items, But house rules a wizard needs a lab to build items. I have also done away with the "magic shop" mentality. I have no problem with scrolls being cheaper, as they have their own problems when casting. I feel magic Items need to be limited though because of how easy it is to abuse them.

 

[ARandomGod]

WGS = Wizards got the Shaft!

OK, not that that's out of my system.

Having run the spell progression tables I was struck (yet again) by how far in the dust Sorcs leave Wizards when it comes to spellcasting. Wizards *have* to shell out their precious gold just to keep up! And then there's the spell scribing cost...

Anyway, one of the primary benefits Wizards are supposed to get are the item creation feats (mind they only get 4 bonus feats), which (as many of remarked) cost the poor wizard XP to use...

Having complained - what are you all's opinions on either :
Giving the wizard more bonus feats (maybe 1/4 lv, or 1/3 level),

or reducing the item XP creation costs?

I personally have included a set of researched necromantic spells that suck XP from a willing donor, which can only be used to create magic items.

Igore any rumors you may have heard of a higher level spell which can drain unwilling donors of XP. There's definitely no way you'll succeed in researching one.

Oh, and do not let yourself get captured alive by an evil NPC artificer. Seriously.

(And, to be honest, we've expanded "Create Wonderous Item" to be able to essentially create any magical item.
Well, OK, it still only creates wonderous items. Wonderous gems, adornments, etc which you can add to armor or weapons, or you can shape them like a stick, add them to a staff, set them in a ring... etc. Esentially allowing that feat to do it all. I actually greatly prefer the flavor that way. Now it completely explains why magical items have so many valuable adornments.)

 

[maggot]

Having run the spell progression tables I was struck (yet again) by how far in the dust Sorcs leave Wizards when it comes to spellcasting.

Interesting. I've run the numbers with some friends and we find the Wizard leaves the Sorceror in the dust. Every even level the Wizards has higher level spells, every odd level the sorcerer has the same number of highest level spells as the specialist wizard but with far less spells known. And to top it off Wizards get bonus feats.

I would say if anyone needs an item creation boost it is the sorceror. If you try to run a campaign without wizards (like a primitive world, for example), you will see that the limited spell and feat selection make the sorcerors unsuited for item creation.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Also, the Epic Level Handbook introducing power sharing in which all characters in the party can contribute part of the XP cost as logn as the wizard p-ays at least 25% of the cost. That REALLY helps quite a bit.

I use a variant of this for my games. Another character can contribute up to 50% of the XP towards an item during regular game play. You also might want to check the Consturction Point rules found in the Unearthed Arcana.

The Wizard class takes some mastery before it shows it's full power, you just have to master it first. Once done, it is quite easily one of the most potent classes in the game.

 

[Silveras]

But the most important thing is time. Item creation feats are worthless if no one has the time to use them.

The Craft Points variant in Unearthed Arcana takes care of this.

Items cost 1 Craft Point per 10 gp of the base price. This does not affect the materials and XP costs. Using Craft Points lets you say "I was working on it while in camp, a little at a time". You can reduce the Craft Point cost by spending actual time - 1 craft point per 2 days (IIRC).

Each character earns 100xlevel Craft Points as they advance in levels. 100 at first, 200 more at 2nd, +300 at 3rd, etc.

Each Item Creation feat adds 100 x the required caster level to your pool of Craft Points.

This is one of the variants that I really like.
A new feat "Talented Crafter" just adds a flat 500 Craft Points to your pool.

Other characters can help pay the Craft Point cost of items, up to 1/2, depending on their skills and feats.

Another new feat, Craft Alchemical Items, can substitute for being a spellcaster when making Alchemical Substances (not potions).

Other new feats are Craft Masterwork Item, which allows you to ... uh... craft masterwork items. Without it, you can't make masterwork armor, weapons, etc. IIRC, there are separate feats for Armor, Weapons, and general items. Each adds more Craft Points to your pool.