WH40k Rogue Trader

[Burrito Al Pastor]

Or they could just play space marines.

I wasn't big on the idea of a party of Astartes in DH until I read that. Now? I really want somebody to do it, because it sounds Awesome.

 

[jgerman]

...I would LOVE to hear your rationale behind this statement. As far as I'm concerned, Dark Heresy is about as good an implementation of 40k as you can get.

Simple, instead of releasing rules to a 40k RPG they released rules locked down to a specific setting. There should have been a general rulebook and separate, specific setting books. The book for playing in the Inquisition could have been releases simultaneously with the basic rulebook rather than being tightly coupled into the ruleset.

Instead you are getting a book that constrains you to a very narrow setting (in a very large universe of possibilities) and you're going to get two more of the same, with the general rules reprinted each time. It's completely asinine and I have yet to hear any justification for it.

You can certainly hack the rules apart and adapt it to other settings but there's no reason you should have to, it should have been written with some common sense from the get go.

The question about why they chose to do things this way was put to BI two years ago at Gencon and they had no answer just some hand waving and on to the next question.

I'm glad some people like it. As it stands though the book has fantastic production value but it's a piss poor implementation, in my opinion. Additionally the splat books so far, in particular the adventures, are complete crap.

 

[Burrito Al Pastor]

Well, in many regards it's a direct follow to their Inquisitor line, and I'd hardly call the Imperium "locked down into a single setting". It's a tremendously compelling and diverse setup for adventures of a very broad array of tones, while allowing for a sufficiently narrow lens that they can actually get some real depth on the material they're using.

Complaining that it's only the Inquisition is a bit like complaining that the 4e PHB doesn't let you play a skeleton, in my mind. 40k is such a ludicriously dense setting in fluff that if they had tried to cover all their bases, it would have been completely unplayable by anybody who didn't previously know the setting like the back of their hand - at least, for somewhere between several months and a year, and another $40. A game where mechanics are tied to a particular setting can NOT afford to not give a VERY good explanation of the setting in the main book. This is why there's like a page of information about Greyhawk in the 3e core books, and a chapter on the setting of Exalted.

Have you read the Eisenhorn and Ravenor books? If you haven't, you probably don't really understand the appeal of an Inquisition campaign.

(And as far as the official module goes, I've been playing in it, and it's fantastic. Better than any official modules WOTC has put out for 4e, certainly.)

 

[jgerman]

Well, in many regards it's a direct follow to their Inquisitor line, and I'd hardly call the Imperium "locked down into a single setting". It's a tremendously compelling and diverse setup for adventures of a very broad array of tones, while allowing for a sufficiently narrow lens that they can actually get some real depth on the material they're using.

Complaining that it's only the Inquisition is a bit like complaining that the 4e PHB doesn't let you play a skeleton, in my mind. 40k is such a ludicriously dense setting in fluff that if they had tried to cover all their bases, it would have been completely unplayable by anybody who didn't previously know the setting like the back of their hand - at least, for somewhere between several months and a year, and another $40. A game where mechanics are tied to a particular setting can NOT afford to not give a VERY good explanation of the setting in the main book. This is why there's like a page of information about Greyhawk in the 3e core books, and a chapter on the setting of Exalted.

Have you read the Eisenhorn and Ravenor books? If you haven't, you probably don't really understand the appeal of an Inquisition campaign.

(And as far as the official module goes, I've been playing in it, and it's fantastic. Better than any official modules WOTC has put out for 4e, certainly.)

This isn't a book about the Imperium, it's a book about one tiny aspect of the Imperium. You play an acolyte in service of an Inquisitor, period. Again there was no reason to lock it down in this way. The core rules do not need to vary from setting to setting and they shouldn't have been tightly coupled to one setting in the way that they were. Where a good RPG starts off talking about possibilities and goes into the core rules Dark Heresey tells you exactly what kind of character you will play from the get go.

I can easily come up with dozens of campaign ideas, in the Imperium, that are not supported by these rules without modification of the core tenet of the system.

This book closes doors rather than opens them. It's the opposite of what a good RPG should do. The mechanics of the game itself are ok, if a bit dated and clunky... they're definitely workable. A fan of the 40k universe is better served by a copy of Rogue Trader (the real one... or better yet a copy of the 40k fluff bible), and Savage Worlds.

You're welcome to your opinion, just as I'm welcome to mine. Though I have to admit, if you consider Purge the Unclean to be good it disinclines me to take anything else you say on the matter seriously

I have no idea what the WotC comment was for, unless it's some kind of attempt to take a dig at WotC, 4E or both. I certainly didn't try and compare the two.

 

[Monkey Boy]

All rule sets are tool boxes. The DH rules, while crunchy, are well suited to providing that warhammer feel, something can't see savage worlds emulating. I'd cite the Psyker rules as a fine example of the rules providing a 40k feel. The career system doesn't bother me so much. I look at them as archetypes - gun guy, sniper, preacher, tech head etc.. Take these archetypes and run whatever kind of game you want. As a DM all you need is a familiarity with the 40k universe and your golden.

DH has been our groups go to game for the last 3 months. For an 'awful realization of 40k' we are all having an 'awful' lot of fun with it.

 

[DandD]

Well, in theory, some people probably do have fun playing F.A.T.A.L. too, but that's not a sign for being a good game...

Not that Dark Heresy is as bad as F.A.T.A.L., on the contrary, it's a good system that can emulate the "GRIMDARK"-setting of the 41st millennium.

I only wish that you get to play a xeno in Rogue Trader. Or heck, orkish Freebootaz.
Tau Water Caste merchants with Fire Warrior bodyguards. Eldar Corsair Princess with their retinue of blood-lusting adolescent crew. Dark Eldar Dracons and his Incuby-bodyguards raiding chem'pan'zey-hives and selling stolen imperial relics to human rogue traders for even more slaves and valuable minerals. Kroot mercenaries protecting foolish human captains and eating the body of the dead to gain new DNA-strains that will help the kindred on Pech.

But I do guess that's not going to be possible, as the entire thing is too humano-centric.

 

[Monkey Boy]

I wouldn't discount Eldar in some form or Kroot mercs making an appearance as playable races in Rogue Trader. I would discount your other ideas from ever seeing print only ... well... based on Nights Dark Masters introducing vamp campaigns, Children of the Horned Rat introducing the skaven campaign and Tome of Corruption bringing Chaos / beastmen / Norse campaigns ... nah they would never do that with 40k would they?

If ToC, CotHR and NDM sold well then perhaps we will see something similar in the 40k line.

 

[DandD]

Meh, you know the standart-Black Library-reply to questions why there's no xeno-novel in the 41st millennium. They claim that it's too alien for humans to read about (and the only guy who did write an eldar-novel is unfortunately the very worst writer to have written a BL-novel ever), and stories are told in the view of humans anyway.

If the story-producing arm of Games Workshop won't produce xeno-material, why would those who have currently the RPG-license right now produce something like that with their own time and money?

I can hope, but I would not expect it to happen.

Stupid wh40k-aliens-are-too-aliens-for-humans-excuse.

 

[Burrito Al Pastor]

This isn't a book about the Imperium, it's a book about one tiny aspect of the Imperium. You play an acolyte in service of an Inquisitor, period. Again there was no reason to lock it down in this way. The core rules do not need to vary from setting to setting and they shouldn't have been tightly coupled to one setting in the way that they were. Where a good RPG starts off talking about possibilities and goes into the core rules Dark Heresey tells you exactly what kind of character you will play from the get go.

I can easily come up with dozens of campaign ideas, in the Imperium, that are not supported by these rules without modification of the core tenet of the system.

I can't possibly imagine. I was talking to a friend about some one-shots that might be fun; he's threatening to run an elaborate Scooby-Doo parody. Fred has an orange ascot because he killed a kroot with it, Thelma is an adept with a prediliction for the word "Jinkies", and Shaggy and Scooby are an unstable Imperial psyker and a malfunctioning cyber-mastiff they keep locked in the back of the Chimera, which was tagged in psychadelic colors by a local gang and the party hasn't had time to clean it off. I want to see a game in which everybody is a guardsman, with a lasgun, guard flak, an Uplifting Primer, and a hundred thousand genestealers to fight.

In all seriousness, what are some adventure concepts set in the Imperium that can't be handled with Dark Heresy and don't involve playing Space Marines?

You're welcome to your opinion, just as I'm welcome to mine. Though I have to admit, if you consider Purge the Unclean to be good it disinclines me to take anything else you say on the matter seriously

What issues did you have with Purge the Unclean, outside of your issues inherent in the system and default premise?

I have no idea what the WotC comment was for, unless it's some kind of attempt to take a dig at WotC, 4E or both. I certainly didn't try and compare the two.

I had intended it as sort of a baseline comparison, on the theory that WOTC's 4e modules have a consistent quality which is in some way well-known. I have no beefs with WOTC or 4e, aside from their apparent inability to write a good module.

 

[JackSmithIV]

In all seriousness, what are some adventure concepts set in the Imperium that can't be handled with Dark Heresy and don't involve playing Space Marines?

QFT

I've heard this argument many times before. The best I've ever heard it are on Dark Heresy forums, and there is merit to those who think the scope is too small. When I heard there would be a 40K RPG, I was psyched. I thought there would be marines, inquisitors, all sorts of things. Epic campaigns of war and struggle, planets hanging in the balance, etc... and I was incredibly disappointed. I didn't have epic wars, important characters, and all of my campaign ideas were shattered. I thought myself that Dark Heresy had failed me, because it didn't provide for my type of game.

But for everything else in the Imperium, Dark Heresy has you covered. You might say that it only covers certain aspects of the world, but it's the vast majority of the Imperium that the Dark Heresy setting is aimed at.

And, if this new Rogue Trader is going to be a tie-in game, with near identical rules, that's another gap in the system that they're closing. I still hope for a game or sourcebook that lets me play my marine, but for now, they allowed for an incredible range of options with Dark Heresy.