What 4e Fluff do you Like?

[billd91]

I'm dislike most of 4e's fluff. Its departures form one of the major barriers to me liking 4e as a D&D edition. But I do like the metaphor of sailing the astral seas. I like that much better than flying along in a gray space.

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

I don't own any of the books, but I read a little of the PHB3 at a local store and I really like what they've done with minotaurs: they struggle between the standard bestial image and an enlightened state, the latter of which fitting with some ideas I've had about them having to become smart to live in, and perhaps escape, a maze.

 

[Stormonu]

Isn't there some famous saying that great art is stolen, or something to that effect? Also, that there are no new ideas? Regardless, you seem to be implying that something must be wholly, untaintedly, original to be appreciated by those "in the know". Just sayin'.

*Heh*, ALL of D&D is stolen from somewhere else - always has been, always will. Borrowing from the familiar is what often makes D&D such a comfortable game to run.

I just wanted to be sure people weren't thinking that WotC came up with the idea of Primordials/Titans vs. Gods wholecloth. I guess it's kinda like hearing someone gush about elves, dwarves, halflings and orcs as if it were the first time they were in D&D and pointing out "Dude, Tolkien did that stuff in the 30's (and there was a movie a couple years back...)".

Of course, my only knowledge of WotC's version of the Dawn War is what's been presented in the PHB, DMG or MM entries, so I don't know what sort of detail they have put into it. For all I know, it could be like Tolkien's arrangement of folklore; it all existed before, but nobody's put it together in such an epic, engaging way. If it's the story details that folks like, that's good. If it's the idea of Gods vs. Primordials, well, that's old hat.

 

[Harlekin]

That's why it is so great.

Many aspects of the Points of Lights don't feel like some alien, remote or abstract concept. It feels like it is actually creating a mix of all the ("Western") traditional myths and folklore.

They Feywild ties into ideas of Faeries and fairy tales. The entire setting is closer to our* cultural heritage then something abstract like the Great Wheel and the Blood War ever have been.

This is in some ways old and unoriginal. These are stories we might have heard before. But they are not necessarily stories that have been told "with" D&D, stories that we have played through.


*(well, "our" if you are within the Western/Eurocentric part of the world)

I agree, the 4ed cosmolgy is one of its strongest parts. And Munstrum's post summarizes why. It is fantastic and at the same time accessible.

I also like the Epic Destinies a lot. They give the high levels a feel that sets it apart from lower levels.

In general, 4ed has adopted a "show, don't tell" philosophy to fluff. As Neonchamaeleon said, a lot of the flavor of different monsters is expressed through rules mechanics rather than expounded on in the flavor text.

 

[Stormonu]

I do like the Feywild - that is something the D&D cosmology has been missing. Most of the other cosmology (from what I've gleaned) seems mostly like it is very similar to the old great wheel, just approached from a different angle.

 

[Glyfair]

I like 4E's fluff quite a bit. A lot of the reasons have been given above. Eberron is my campaign world of choice right now, but if I was ready to build/rebuild my campaign world, I would definitely incorporate a lot of the ideas and concepts.

What I like best about it, though, is that it did not just build on what came before. The D&D canon was getting to the point where there was just too much backstory that has gone before. You need one of DC or Marvel comics continuity experts to keep straight all the canon (which is often contradictory) straight.*

To me, the "fluff" of 4E reminds me a lot of AD&D. There were bits and pieces of a world that were mentioned that suggested there was more, but it wasn't given. That inspired me to create it. When AD&D was released, Greyhawk was not written up, mapped and detailed. You just had the tidbits from the rule books. That is what 4E brings back to me, and that's what I like best.

* Sure, you can ignore the parts you want. However, one of the main reasons to stick to an existing canon is because of the depth of what is out there.

 

[Nifft]

Things I love:

- Prevalence of Far Realms. Radiance and insanity and tentacles for everyone!

- The Elemental Chaos. It's mostly how I'd already re-done the Elemental planes in my game, but it's even simpler, and it allows for all sorts of funky mixed-up elemental critters, which fuels my imagination. Also, Titans and Giants are finally cool again.

- The Nine Hells. Angels who murdered a god = AWESOME. They're the ultimate angsty teenage rebels, but you can stab them.

- The Feywild. Dumb name, but it means Fey are scary again! Yay!

- Points of Light. This is great for my style of play.


Things I like:

- The Ancient Empire of the Tieflings, because Infernal Atlantis is delicious.

- Dwarves as miniature Giants. Hilarious and appropriate.

- Gods vs. Primordials. Not original, but works just fine.

- Primal power source. Animism = cool. I kinda wish there were more implications of Primal vs. Arcane vs. Divine vs. whatever power sources, though then we get into game balance issues and ... yeah.


Things I dislike:

- The Shadowfell. Never really loved the Negative Energy Plane, and the Plane of Shadow is only great in that it's alien & horrible, which could be covered better by some other adversaries. I'd rather the Undead were not given a cosmic home -- they're cooler as a home-made problem IMHO.

- The Astral Sea. Meh. Granted, it's not like my cosmology was so much better -- mine had the River Oceanus and the River Styx as the canonical ways to get from one Outer Plane to another -- but I was hoping for something better than my own scribblings.


Cheers, -- N

 

[Voadam]

That's why it is so great.

Many aspects of the Points of Lights don't feel like some alien, remote or abstract concept. It feels like it is actually creating a mix of all the ("Western") traditional myths and folklore.

They Feywild ties into ideas of Faeries and fairy tales. The entire setting is closer to our* cultural heritage then something abstract like the Great Wheel and the Blood War ever have been.

This is in some ways old and unoriginal. These are stories we might have heard before. But they are not necessarily stories that have been told "with" D&D, stories that we have played through.


*(well, "our" if you are within the Western/Eurocentric part of the world)

The great wheel was an actual mishmash mix of real world traditional myths. Greek Hades, Tarterous, and Olympus, Norse Gladsheim, Hell from Dante's Inferno, the Abyss as seen in Paradise Lost, etc. All the real world myth pantheons from Deities and Demigods were placed within it.

I like the 4e cosmology a lot, feyish stuff have a solid place in the feywild that works and integrates well in the 4e D&D scheme of things which was not really there in previous editions.

I'm reading through the 4e MM now (I'm up to the Fs) and enjoying it. Good monster stat design philosophy, useful statblock presentation, good pictures, and what descriptive information there is on the monsters is usually evocative, though sparse. I loved the 2e monstrous compendiums with their ecology entries and in-depth descriptions which are not here anymore but what 4e provides is pretty good.

I'm considering getting the preview books to get a more in-depth description of the race, monster, and world stuff hinted at in the PH, MM, and DMG.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

If it's the idea of Gods vs. Primordials, well, that's old hat.

Indeed, not only does it harken to the Greek mythology's Gods vs. Titans, but also the Norse mythology's Gods vs. Jotun/Giants.

 

[Amphimir Míriel]

Chalk me up as another "4E cosmology lover" and "racial background lover"

I have incorporated a lot of the 4E cosmology and racial backgrounds into my War of the Burning Sky campaign and my players love it.

For example, I declared that Dragonborn and Tieflings are not really native to the Ragesian peninsula but rather have come as refugees from the war-torn continent over the sea where the remains of Arkhosia and Bael Turath are still fighting*... Also the Worm, Kraken, Dragon and Eagle are old primordials who ruled and shaped this part of the world in the time before the gods... Shahalesti rules a small part of the peninsula in the material world, but quite a bit more in the Feywild... etc.

* Here in Mexico, there are vibrant communities of Jews, Arabs and Lebanese who are the children of immigrants who came here in the mid-20th century. It is quite common to see these communities mingle and form ties of friendship and business relations, while still making good-natured cultural jabs and jokes at each others expense. That's how I picture Dragonborn and Tieflings live in the Lands of the Burning Sky