What are Minions anyway?

[Charwoman Gene]

Okay, so I'm thinking about minions.

Minions die in one hit. That's a little silly, if taken at face value.

Do minions die in one hit, or are they "taken out of combat" in one hit?
Wounded. Holding in their intestines, etc.

Are minions the real "Commoners" or "0-Levels"?

I'm thinking about the simulationist implications.

I'm doomed.

 

[abeattie]

Okay, so I'm thinking about minions.

Minions die in one hit. That's a little silly, if taken at face value.

Do minions die in one hit, or are they "taken out of combat" in one hit?
Wounded. Holding in their intestines, etc.

Are minions the real "Commoners" or "0-Levels"?

I'm thinking about the simulationist implications.

I'm doomed.

They're the many people in every battle doomed to die without contributing anything. Maybe they're unlucky, maybe they're untrained, ore inconsequential, but essentially they're mooks. They're the tons of mooks that get cut down in enter the dragon, or the gang-bangers that get blown away in a mob moive. It's not their story, but they are there.

I gotta tell you, I played a bit with the 1st level pcs and the released monsters, and it was alot of fun to be able to swarm a party of first level PCs with 20 kobolds and no fear of a TPK.

 

[Wormwood]

I'm thinking about the simulationist implications.

I'm doomed.

Attempting to shoehorn such an essentially cinematic concept as minions, mooks and extras into a simulationist framework is a task not worth undertaking, IMO.

I predict this thread will either end up being one page or twenty.

Good luck!

 

[Rex Blunder]

The Savage Worlds Pirates game (and presumably other savage worlds games) has a neat rule for this. It's, basically, flip a coin for each casualty after the fight to see if they were killed or just wounded. I'd kind of like to see a simple rule like that introduced for minions.

I've played in several D&D games where allied crewmen or town guards were dropped, and we actually kept track of their negative hit points and rolled their stabilization rolls every turn, because these NPCs were a valuable resource we wanted to hold onto. Needless to say, it slows down combat when you are doing 5 or 10 stabilization rolls every turn and marking people further down the track to -10 hp. It would have been preferable to have an easy way to check for survivors which took place during the wrapup of the encounter.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Okay, so I'm thinking about minions.

Minions die in one hit. That's a little silly, if taken at face value.

Do minions die in one hit, or are they "taken out of combat" in one hit?
Wounded. Holding in their intestines, etc.

Are minions the real "Commoners" or "0-Levels"?

I'm thinking about the simulationist implications.

I'm doomed.

You are speculating from false premiases.
1) Minions do not always die from one hit, ala Vampire Spawn Minion have 10 hps.
2) Minions are just weaker versions of grunts/mooks. Not everyone is worth/able to train to full power.

Each Minion has a level so they aren't 0-leveled.

In essence, a Minion is the weaker version of the same level grunt. They take less damage, deal less, and have weaker defenses. They are the crippled version in a way.
They also are worth less (in XP). So the evil Overlord has no issue throwing them the heroes to soften them up: he can always buy/train more.

So far my forumla for hps is 1/2 Level* + 1/2 Con Stat=hp of a minion
* If reduces this to less than 1, he only has 1 hit beforethey die).


It explains how Vamp Spawn have 10 and Kobolds 1.

 

[Kitirat]

I can field this one (I'm a siumulationist as well).

Having now run 4 and played in 1 demo I'm getting a feel for 4th and minions are something I actually really like.

Minions do not just die on a hit, they have hit points (just very low ones) For example the vampire spawn has 10 hit points at 10th level (I think that is its level anyway). Minions are the flunkies, the chaff as it were, the black ninjas who come at heroes one at a time.

The concept I have taken away from 4th ed which I actually like the most as a sim is the concept of realistic hiearchies of power.

In 3rd everyone could be a wizard if they had a popcorn fart of an Int (12) and a few books. In 4th lots of people my be trying to be wizards (say much as many try to start out as PHD physics majors in RL) but only a small fraction actually get there(less the 5%). The 1st level PC is one of those top percent and he and his party are the guys who manage to survive more than 1-2 hits.

The minions are the guys who just did not live up to the metal and die (like most of us would) from a successfuly blow from a seasoned warrior. Some might survive the blow (not die but just be incapacitated) but it is extremely unlikely they will still be "in the combat".

For most combats it adds a bit more realiism to me so far. As an aside, it is also a lot more fun for the players, though that does not factor into my sim mindset, just my DM mindset (ultimate goal is fun, with as much grit and realism as I can get in there).

See ya,
Ken

 

[Nightchilde-2]

Minions die in one hit. That's a little silly, if taken at face value.

I'm thinking there's a "magic spreadsheet" somewhere in the WotC offices that has a computation for the average (or possibly even minimum) damage a standard character deals at X level with one hit, and minions of the same level are keyed to that amount.

Which is why kobold minions die if they take any damage, but vampire minions have 10hp. That way, a vampire minion can stay a fairly viable threat for a group of 1st level characters, but are a cakewalk for, say, 6th level characters.

Just my thoughts.

I like minion/mook rules. Lets the players (and characters) feal like real bad mambajambas right up until they hit the real challenging non-mook critters.

 

[GnomeWorks]

I can field this one (I'm a siumulationist as well).

<snip>

That seems like a pretty solid explanation.

 

[Nine Hands]

Something I started doing for my Star Wars game was to ignore hit points completely for mooks like stormtroopers or rebel soldiers. Instead if they had 30 or less hit points, they died in one hit, if they had 30 or more, it took two or a single crit.

If the attacker rolled really crappy on the damage roll, I let the minion live but marked it so that another attack would kill it. The players still haven't caught on that I am doing this and the game runs so much faster.

 

[tomtill]

Most people faced with extreme violence will freeze, or make a desperate but doomed attempt to defend themselves but not give it the commitment or the skill that it needs. They will die.

They are minions.

A few, either through training or innate reflexes or just dumb luck, will make a good showing, or even win.

These are named or classed opponents, or in the D&D game, everybody who is not a minion.

If you are into simulation, most social humanoid groups will be comprised predominately of minions. Most of these will fight you only by mistake or out of desperation.

Oh, and as a simulationist, remember that the D&D hit mechanic is an abstraction that may represent a perfect single hit, or a series of blows, the sum of which achieve the loss of the abstraction that hit points represent. An opponent with no hit points is dead by default, but may also be unconscious, or just beat up to the point where he is no longer willing to fight, depending on how the DM chooses to represent it. Point is, he is a vanquished opponent. Everything else is just fluff. The game system balances the battle/skill challenge system. Everything else is the story, and doesn't need to be balanced.