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<blockquote data-quote="SlyDoubt" data-source="post: 5446018" data-attributes="member: 6667337">Really? The wizard argument? No one is ever going to be as potentially powerful as a wizard or cleric. Period.How could they be. A guy with a sword or bow shouldn't be the equivalent of a wizard, it just makes no sense. Unless you're playing with people you don't know or in a convention setting I just don't see how this matters at all. You're not fighting each other.I think PF has done plenty to give non-magical classes other interesting things to do that aren't magical. If magic is such an issue in a home game just ban the spells that seem to invalidate everyone elses abilities. If the wizard always wants to steal the show from everyone else that's more his problem not being able to get along than the game. Wizards should have ridiculously powerful options but that doesn't mean they should always use them. That has more to do with etiquette than rules.Magic is essentially stuff that plays outside the rules everyone else follows. If you choose to play a class with no magical aptitude you know that ahead of time and thankfully since your players/DM are humans you can discuss the issue. Sorry for the tangent. I just have an issue with making fighters able to do things wizards can do/making wizards as powerful as a guy with a sword/bow. Magic needs to be magical to be magic at all. Magic is supposed to break the rules. It wouldn't be exciting if it didn't.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="SlyDoubt, post: 5446018, member: 6667337"] Really? The wizard argument? No one is ever going to be as potentially powerful as a wizard or cleric. Period. How could they be. A guy with a sword or bow shouldn't be the equivalent of a wizard, it just makes no sense. Unless you're playing with people you don't know or in a convention setting I just don't see how this matters at all. You're not fighting each other. I think PF has done plenty to give non-magical classes other interesting things to do that aren't magical. If magic is such an issue in a home game just ban the spells that seem to invalidate everyone elses abilities. If the wizard always wants to steal the show from everyone else that's more his problem not being able to get along than the game. Wizards should have ridiculously powerful options but that doesn't mean they should always use them. That has more to do with etiquette than rules. Magic is essentially stuff that plays outside the rules everyone else follows. If you choose to play a class with no magical aptitude you know that ahead of time and thankfully since your players/DM are humans you can discuss the issue. Sorry for the tangent. I just have an issue with making fighters able to do things wizards can do/making wizards as powerful as a guy with a sword/bow. Magic needs to be magical to be magic at all. Magic is supposed to break the rules. It wouldn't be exciting if it didn't. [/QUOTE]

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