What are the mechanics for disguising self as undead?

[Zaruthustran]

Vampires have a "feral" appearance. They are definitely a different race, and if they aren't, it amounts to the same thing anyway.

Not that it matters because of the no-shadow thing but this particular character has the primal scream ability (Wild Runner PRC from RotW), which causes his jaw to elongate, he grows fangs (and gains a bite attack), etc. I've got the feral part covered.

I guess I could use the spell to change skin complexion to pale and change eye color from green to red (definitely "minor changes"), and leave it up to the NPC to draw his own conclusions about what the heck is attacking him.

-z

 

[Dracorat]

On the other hand, you did just add a template with a discernable visible effect.

I guess the hard part here is that it's type that is being changed.

Now, to expound, you left out two key aspects of the Disguise Self spell:

If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on the Disguise check.

A creature that interacts with the glamer gets a Will save to recognize it as an illusion.

So, you do get a +10 off the bat, but as soon as you even show up to battle, someone is going to quickly discern that you are disguised.

That said, there are a lot of different aspects of disguise not specifically handled.

Since you are simply attempting to make yourself appear undead, I'd give you the -2 and be done with it if I were your DM.

But any undead would immediately know you are a fake, and anything able to see positive/negative energies auras would as well.

 

[Wolfwood2]

Personally, I'd allow you to try it, and assign a -2 penalty on top of the -2 for appearing as a different race. I wouldn't call any disguise that involves a different creature Type "minor details only," and I would give anyone with 5 ranks of Knowledge (religion) a +2 synergy bonus to Spot through the disguise.

That seems kind of wrong, since only someone with Knowledge (religion) would be able to spot the 'clues' and recognize a vampire in the first place. It wouldn't even work on someone who didn't know what a vampire is.

Admittedly this does seem like kind of a knotty problem to work out mechanically, but there's nothing wrong in the basic concept. Disguising yourself as a vampire is a perfectly reasonable use of the Disguise skill. I think I'd run it as a straight check of Knowledge: Religion vs. the Disguise check, rather than the usual Spot check. If the Knowledge Religion check is high enough to successfully identify a vampire (say DC 12) but not enough to beat the Disguise check, then the opponent is successfully fooled into thinking you're a vampirte.

That seems like the mechanically simplest way to handle it.

 

[Wolfwood2]

And, as another person pointed out, there's no way around the shadow/reflection thing. Vampire is a poor choice for this trick.

Ah, come on. Is there always going to be a mirror around? And shadows can be an awfully subtle thing.

Real vampires can successfully disguise themselves as human beings, after all. Why then should the reverse not be possible, if due precautions are taken? I don't get why everyone on this thread is reacting like it's such a bad idea. It sounds like a really cool idea to me.

 

[Dracorat]

Minor image would help if you find yourself somewhere it matters. But if the shadow is an issue, there is a larger issue. What is a vampire doing somewhere that even casts shadows to begin with?

 

[Hypersmurf]

What is a vampire doing somewhere that even casts shadows to begin with?

Like a creepy candlelit crypt?

-Hyp.

 

[Dracorat]

Like a creepy candlelit crypt?

-Hyp.

For it to have sufficient lighting that a non-vampire would be able to see, but still be perceived as a vampire, we are talking a lot of candles, spaced at regular intervals. I don't know if you've ever lit multiple candles in the same room, but by the time you get three or so lit, you no longer have a discernable shadow.

 

[Storyteller01]

I get what you're saying with regards to Dragon (dwarf) being different from Humanoid (Dwarf), but if the race of a wood elf vampire is not wood elf, what is it? Vampire is not a race, and neither is undead (undead is a Type).

Then again, a skeletal wood elf--even though the race may still be wood elf--definitely looks very different than a living elf, and shouldn't be covered by Disguise Self.

And, as another person pointed out, there's no way around the shadow/reflection thing. Vampire is a poor choice for this trick.

Any other suggestions for Disguise subjects that would discourage casters from throwing Will-save spells his way?

-z

Ghast or ghoul?

regardless of what you choose, watch out for a developing reputation. Hate to see your character get whacked by an undead hunter.

Make a nice surprise when dealing with evil clerics though.

 

[Dracorat]

Hell, go all out and go for flesh golem. Woot!

 

[Zaruthustran]

Now that's an awesome idea. Flesh Golem FTW.

If anyone cares, details on the character:
He's a Ranger 3/Fighter 1/Rogue 1/Scout 1/Wild Runner 2/Shadowdancer 3. Hide modifier is +28. Feats are power attack, dodge, mobility, spring attack, Combat Reflexes, Track, Endurance, TWF. Key class features are Hide in Plain Sight, Shadow Illusion, Summon Shadow, Scent, Primal Scream, Darkvision, Evasion, Trackless Step, Fast Movement, Sneak Attack 1d6, Skirmish 1d6. Primary weapons are a +1 cold iron human bane glaive, +1 frost silver armor spikes, and +1 mighty (+4) composite longbow. Primary tactic is to spring attack, all while Hiding in Plain Sight (taking the -20 penalty while attacking and the -5 on the spring out) so the target (ideally) never sees the attacker.

So yeah the shadow thing can be a big deal, because his HiPS relies on him staying within 10' of "some sort of shadow".

-z

And thanks for the kind words, Dracorat!