What are the most worthless feats (Heroic)?
- Thread starter Emirikol
- Start date
Gort
Explorer
I've never seen anyone take the following:
Expanded Spellbook - you already get twice the choice everyone else does, why do you need more?
Far Shot and Far Throw - I've never found the ranges on weapons to be a major factor in my games.
Fast Runner - +2 speed would be nice if it wasn't so situational.
Long Jumper - To be honest, I don't make enough jumps for this to be a worthwhile feat.
Mounted Combat - Not really seen much point in this to be honest. I haven't had a mount yet, though.
Shield Push - You can push someone one square IF something very situational happens. Keep in mind that you have an at-will power that pushes people one square.
Skill Focus - Generally speaking, you can be good enough at a skill without needing this.
Sure Climber - I don't climb that often that I need to spend feats on it.
Expanded Spellbook - you already get twice the choice everyone else does, why do you need more?
Far Shot and Far Throw - I've never found the ranges on weapons to be a major factor in my games.
Fast Runner - +2 speed would be nice if it wasn't so situational.
Long Jumper - To be honest, I don't make enough jumps for this to be a worthwhile feat.
Mounted Combat - Not really seen much point in this to be honest. I haven't had a mount yet, though.
Shield Push - You can push someone one square IF something very situational happens. Keep in mind that you have an at-will power that pushes people one square.
Skill Focus - Generally speaking, you can be good enough at a skill without needing this.
Sure Climber - I don't climb that often that I need to spend feats on it.
Sure Climber/Long Jumper: If you really want to be an awesome climber or jumper, it seems like Skill Focus: Athletics would give you more bang for your buck.
Weapon Focus: Decent, but Dwarves and Eladrin have a racial feat that outshines it, at least in Heroic tier. Others will probably find more useful feats to fill their slots.
Astral Fire/Burning Blizzard/Raging Storm: Hey, it's like Weapon Focus, but only applies to a few of my powers! Also, the statistical prerequisites are all over the place; there really seems to be no rhyme or reason to them, except perhaps a general "Screw the Wizard that tries to build a theme" theme. If I was a DM, I'd probably house-rule that these feats have no prerequisites. Then somebody might actually take them. Maybe.
The Majority of Channel Divinity Powers: Some are truly awful. Ioun's Poise? +5 to one ally's Will for one turn? "There, now you are probably somewhat safe for a short while provided the enemy uses a specific attack against you on its next turn, and only its next turn. Probably." Yeah, that sounds like a good use of an Encounter power, right there. Right on par with Turn Undead or Divine Mettle. Uh-huh. Sure.
Linguist: Love it from a flavor perspective. But I never end up taking it. Why? Because I can't come up with a reason why my character should spontaneously learn three languages!
Mounted Combat: Like the poster above said, it's possibly good, but not in Heroic tier. It's a tempting one to take with retraining, though.
Alertness: Negating combat advantage if surprised doesn't seem to come up enough to be useful. I'd rather take Skill Focus and get an extra +1 to Perception, thanks.
Anything That Gives a Situational Bonus: Dodge Giants/Defensive Mobility/Combat Reflexes/Dragonborn Frenzy, etc. I personally avoid these, because I'm sure I'll always forget the relevant bonuses when their rare circumstances finally come up. That's just me, though, and me knowing my own limitations as a player. I'm sure some are quite useful, if you can remember them and put yourself into situations where you'll use them. Nimble Blade's the exception of course: Rogues are always seeking out CA, so its circumstances are far from rare.
Weapon Focus: Decent, but Dwarves and Eladrin have a racial feat that outshines it, at least in Heroic tier. Others will probably find more useful feats to fill their slots.
Astral Fire/Burning Blizzard/Raging Storm: Hey, it's like Weapon Focus, but only applies to a few of my powers! Also, the statistical prerequisites are all over the place; there really seems to be no rhyme or reason to them, except perhaps a general "Screw the Wizard that tries to build a theme" theme. If I was a DM, I'd probably house-rule that these feats have no prerequisites. Then somebody might actually take them. Maybe.
The Majority of Channel Divinity Powers: Some are truly awful. Ioun's Poise? +5 to one ally's Will for one turn? "There, now you are probably somewhat safe for a short while provided the enemy uses a specific attack against you on its next turn, and only its next turn. Probably." Yeah, that sounds like a good use of an Encounter power, right there. Right on par with Turn Undead or Divine Mettle. Uh-huh. Sure.
Linguist: Love it from a flavor perspective. But I never end up taking it. Why? Because I can't come up with a reason why my character should spontaneously learn three languages!
Mounted Combat: Like the poster above said, it's possibly good, but not in Heroic tier. It's a tempting one to take with retraining, though.
Alertness: Negating combat advantage if surprised doesn't seem to come up enough to be useful. I'd rather take Skill Focus and get an extra +1 to Perception, thanks.
Anything That Gives a Situational Bonus: Dodge Giants/Defensive Mobility/Combat Reflexes/Dragonborn Frenzy, etc. I personally avoid these, because I'm sure I'll always forget the relevant bonuses when their rare circumstances finally come up. That's just me, though, and me knowing my own limitations as a player. I'm sure some are quite useful, if you can remember them and put yourself into situations where you'll use them. Nimble Blade's the exception of course: Rogues are always seeking out CA, so its circumstances are far from rare.
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Scholar & Brutalman
First Post
I've seen both a Dragonborn Paladin and an Elf Bow Ranger take it. The Paladin wanted more damage and had run out of other feats he wanted, and the Ranger because it applied to both of his Twin-Strike attacks.
There's a Dwarf Cleric in the same game who has Astral Fire. Given how many radiant attacks he has it's quite useful. The real question is why he has the stat prerequisites.
But apart from that, I agree. They're obviously meant for the arcane classes, but they're useless most of the time.
Absolute agreement here. And with the rest of your choices.
Mad Hamish
First Post
Because there are 3 dailies you might want to use in different circumstances.
It might be more attractive when the Arcane splatbook comes out.
It's not common.
I considered far-shot but with the range on the Greatbow I can't see it as a big issue.
Maybe for a hand-crossbow.
Far Throw might get more use but I don't see it getting picked up all that often.
I can see 2 class/builds that might want it.
Barbarian for charging rage and archer ranger to let you kite (main elf ranger)
Again it'd be rare.
I'd consider it on a nautical or swashbuckling campaign.
Some of the mount abilities are very, very nice.
I don't recall what the conditions on it are.
I certainly remember considering it for a fighter but I haven't actually build one yet.
Skill focus Intimidation.
Also in the right campaign I'd consider Insight
again limited, I'd possibly consider it for some campaigns.
Blood Jester
First Post
Shield push is excellent as a fighter who uses a shield.
Ant marked target that attacks an ally not only gets attacked before they can strike (normal Fighter mark) but you can push them a square away, which means their attack on your squishie never even happens.
This comes up almost every combat. And if your DM stops attacking anyone but the fighter, because he knows the fighter will ruin his attack? Then the feat is permanently in effect.
This feat is not useless.
Ant marked target that attacks an ally not only gets attacked before they can strike (normal Fighter mark) but you can push them a square away, which means their attack on your squishie never even happens.
This comes up almost every combat. And if your DM stops attacking anyone but the fighter, because he knows the fighter will ruin his attack? Then the feat is permanently in effect.
This feat is not useless.
HUGELY disagree. At least in my games, violations of marks are quite frequent (at least 1/encounter), and in a lot of cases you can waste an enemy's attack because his target is no longer in range. Or if an enemy is shifting, you can push him away from where he's trying to go (i.e. deny flanking position). In both cases it's great.
UltimaGabe
First Post
As others have said, this feat is FAR from useless. There are people (myself included) who practically build their entire character around Combat Challenge, and this is one of the foundations of such a build.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
Expanded Spellbook - the 'choice' of a wizard doesn't actually tend to be all that useful: most of the spells have fairly general applications, and outside of that, there's no real way to scout ahead and know what to prepare. Spending a feat to expand that choice is a bit of a waste therefore.
Far Shot and Far Throw - Not usually useful at the normal range than an engagement starts.
Fast Runner - +2 speed is pretty nice for certain characters.
Long Jumper - worthwhile IF you intend to use jump to travel over the squares of foes (which a rogue may want to do)
Mounted Combat - Worth getting if you get a mount and are in a scenario where that mount will see combat. Worthless otherwise. The availability of retraining stops this from being completely unused.
Shield Push - Great feat for fighters.
Skill Focus - The only way to raise your skills above all others.
Sure Climber - one of these wierd feats: climbing has almost zero combat application, even when used creatively. So the main use for this is in situations where the DM has decided that you need to climb. And if noone has this feat, then the climb is unlikely to be incredibly deadly.
Linguist - see sure climber. Most DMs who write story don't do so in order to have the players never learn that story. Hence dialog will almost always be in a language the players understand (either that, or it won't have much thought put into it). Taking this feat simply makes it more likely that ONLY YOU will understand the necessary language, whereas normally the DM would need to resort to common. In that sense, this HURTS your party. There are some specific DMs who are willing to go to some effort writing up story that will never be heard: best to avoid taking this feat until you're certain that your dm is one of them.
Far Shot and Far Throw - Not usually useful at the normal range than an engagement starts.
Fast Runner - +2 speed is pretty nice for certain characters.
Long Jumper - worthwhile IF you intend to use jump to travel over the squares of foes (which a rogue may want to do)
Mounted Combat - Worth getting if you get a mount and are in a scenario where that mount will see combat. Worthless otherwise. The availability of retraining stops this from being completely unused.
Shield Push - Great feat for fighters.
Skill Focus - The only way to raise your skills above all others.
Sure Climber - one of these wierd feats: climbing has almost zero combat application, even when used creatively. So the main use for this is in situations where the DM has decided that you need to climb. And if noone has this feat, then the climb is unlikely to be incredibly deadly.
Linguist - see sure climber. Most DMs who write story don't do so in order to have the players never learn that story. Hence dialog will almost always be in a language the players understand (either that, or it won't have much thought put into it). Taking this feat simply makes it more likely that ONLY YOU will understand the necessary language, whereas normally the DM would need to resort to common. In that sense, this HURTS your party. There are some specific DMs who are willing to go to some effort writing up story that will never be heard: best to avoid taking this feat until you're certain that your dm is one of them.
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