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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 9111980" data-attributes="member: 87792">And the problem isn't even Dex-based characters. It's that almost every single character has Dex and Con as their second and third highest stats unless (a) they are Dex primary or (b) wear heavy armour. This only got worse with decoupling stats from race and is going to get worse again in D&amp;Done where 90% of characters starting array will be 17/14/14/12/10/8 with the 17 in their primary stats and the two 14s in Dex and Con.It's not just Strength; there are very definitely two tiers of stat and I think that for off-stat purposes Int and Cha are dumped about as much as Str. But for saves Dex, Con, Wis &gt;&gt; Str, Int, Cha. And the three low tier stats have no equivalent to initiative +AC, hp, or passive perception. (Cha being dumped a lot isn't as obvious because it's a common trope and because four classes make very heavy use of it so you almost never find an entire party that's dumped cha).The other issue here is that Great Weapon Master isn't actually that good without an accuracy buff. With something like the barbarian's Reckless Attack or the Battlemaster's Precise Strike it's awesome but duelist style &gt; great weapon fighter, and -5 to hit for +10 damage is situational especially compared to an ASI. Of course the best one handed builds are duelist style spear and shield with PAM.&nbsp; If you aren't on a bonus action heavy build anyway. So dex + rapier is definitely viable for a sword &amp; board fighter up to level 6 (and Sentinel and Lucky are hardly bad feats).Not really tbh. As I said, dex primary builds are fine - there are dex primary rogues, rangers, and fighters. It's as a secondary stat where Str falls apart. No one cares about carrying capacity and athletics becomes redundant with things like flight and spider climb.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 9111980, member: 87792"] And the problem isn't even Dex-based characters. It's that almost every single character has Dex and Con as their second and third highest stats unless (a) they are Dex primary or (b) wear heavy armour. This only got worse with decoupling stats from race and is going to get worse again in D&Done where 90% of characters starting array will be 17/14/14/12/10/8 with the 17 in their primary stats and the two 14s in Dex and Con. It's not just Strength; there are very definitely two tiers of stat and I think that for off-stat purposes Int and Cha are dumped about as much as Str. But for saves Dex, Con, Wis >> Str, Int, Cha. And the three low tier stats have no equivalent to initiative +AC, hp, or passive perception. (Cha being dumped a lot isn't as obvious because it's a common trope and because four classes make very heavy use of it so you almost never find an entire party that's dumped cha). The other issue here is that Great Weapon Master isn't actually that good without an accuracy buff. With something like the barbarian's Reckless Attack or the Battlemaster's Precise Strike it's awesome but duelist style > great weapon fighter, and -5 to hit for +10 damage is situational especially compared to an ASI. Of course the best one handed builds are duelist style spear and shield with PAM. If you aren't on a bonus action heavy build anyway. So dex + rapier is definitely viable for a sword & board fighter up to level 6 (and Sentinel and Lucky are hardly bad feats). Not really tbh. As I said, dex primary builds are fine - there are dex primary rogues, rangers, and fighters. It's as a secondary stat where Str falls apart. No one cares about carrying capacity and athletics becomes redundant with things like flight and spider climb. [/QUOTE]

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