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Message: <blockquote data-quote="M_Natas" data-source="post: 9112253" data-attributes="member: 7025918">So far what I have seen the most complains about 5e is the opposite. Not to much chore but it being to easy and boring.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Like Wilderness exploration. It is not really a challenge. Why is it not a challenge? Because those People play without incumberance,  without the tracking of mundane ressources, without the rules for drinking and eating, removing the survival aspect - a pillar of Wilderness exploration.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Like combat. (Inexperienced) DMs use the combat guidelines in the DMG, but not enforcing the Adventure Days recommended 6 to 8 medium encounters and then they and the players complain, that battle is to easy. Which it is if you have only one or two medium encounters a day.</li> </ul>And now the 5e designers do it to. Like on the really bad spelljammer box set - the Astral Sea is the most boring stuff ever. You don't need food, drink, you don't need to navigate. You just think hard and arrive. You maybe have a random encounter in-between but that's it.I mean, yeah, the 2e phlogistan is corny, but at least it was exciting.In 5e spelljammer, they removed any challenge of travel between the crystal spheres (and the crystal spheres itself, making it more boring).Players think, that they want it easie4. That they don't want a challenge. But the moment they turn on the cheat codes and get unlimited money in Fallout and maximum Stats in skyrim, they quit the game because it got boring. Like whenever players realise that the DM will not kill their characters no matter what, the game stops being fun.Without challenge there is no game. A game needs obstacles. Without challenging parts D&D devolves into 5 people sitting at a table telling each other how great their characters are. Even for 5 year olds that is only fun for maybe 10 minutes.And that seems to be the main problem with 5e and the people playing it - by itself 5e is not very challenging. And then people remove "chore" rules they don't like, making it even less challenging.I never saw any post here or in any other D&D forum/social media group that people complained that D&D is to hard/challenging, except for maybe levels 1 and 2, which are actually the most fun levels to play but are also the most skipped levels.I agree that the current encumberance version may not be the best, but if you remove it from the game, you need to account for it, because it removes aspects of the game. Encumberance interacts with many parts of the game, from how much food you can carry for your Wilderness exploration to how much loot you can carry back to town to what battle gear your Strength 6 halfling can actually carry to can you carry your ally out of the danger zone. Without encumberance and ressource tracking Wilderness exploration stops becoming a challenge, combat gets easier, looting gets easier and so on.That is the game mechanic aspect of the game.The second aspect is the immersion in into the world.One other big complain I regularly stumble upon is the lack of player immersion. That they just don't care about the world and the people that live within and just go around murder hoboing ...And tracking ressources and encumberance helps (there are other parts, too) with the immersion.Every time you tick of an arrow from your equipment list it puts you into the world it makes the game world a little bit more real. Because, yes of course the quiver gets emptier when I fire an arrow. That's how real life works. The world becomes a little bit more relatable. It is the little mundane aspects that makes it believable that I'm currently a halfling wizard who's getting roped into a civil war between a mage academy who controls the city and the magical mafia who wants to control the city.Immersion into the world is broken, when this halfling would run around with 10 battleaxes on their back.If you remove the mundane stuff it becomes harder to immerse the players into the world.</blockquote>

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