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What are the "True Issues" with 5e?
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<blockquote data-quote="Composer99" data-source="post: 9112677" data-attributes="member: 7030042"><p>No, because RPG characters, the world they live in, and their activities are, quite literally, figments of our imagination. They're not real at all. We have no obligation to spend time thinking about "what is real" to figments of our imagination or even "what is important" to them! On the other hand, we <em>can</em> do so if we <em><strong>value</strong></em> doing so.</p><p></p><p>I want to hammer home this idea of <strong>value</strong>. An RPG tailored to satisfy your preferences ought to value the same gameplay you do, more or less. Well and good! An RPG tailored to satisfy the various player constituencies of 5e ought to value the gameplay <em>they </em>value, more or less. Also well and good! What is mystifying is that you can't seem to get past conflating "gameplay you value" and "what is objectively correct design for RPGs writ large" or "what RPG gameplay, writ large, ought to look like".</p><p></p><p>What I am getting at is that what makes high-fidelity, high-resolution, highly-granular gameplay as regards in-fiction logistics so appealing to you is that it matches what you, personally, value - which is great! - but also that there is no "objective" or "universal" basis to assert that all RPGs must include that kind of gameplay: including it does not make an RPG better and excluding it does not make an RPG worse - it only makes it a better or worse fit with the kind of gameplay you value.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Thanks for your condolences; with all sincerity, they are much appreciated. (The same is on offer for your mom if she has also passed.)</p><p></p><p>As your own example of model train building and my example of abandoned painting of Blood Bowl minis shows, to my mind an enjoyable end result is not enough to sustain a person's interest in a hobby - <em>somewhere along the line</em>, the process itself also has to be enjoyable, or, at the very least, enjoyable <em>enough</em>. I am sure it is correct to say there are aspects of the process of gardening my late wife did not enjoy, but she must have enjoyed the process enough to persist with gardening as a hobby - otherwise, she would have abandoned it, just as you abandoned model trains and I abandoned miniatures painting.</p><p></p><p>The distinct thing about RPGs is that they have a whole lot more flexibility when it comes to gameplay process and when it comes to what we bother including in the explicitly-declared fiction: if we want to play a game of grand heroic adventure, we can downplay or exclude gameplay processes that force us to consider logistical questions within the fiction, and if we want to play a game of grim and gritty survival, we can include and "foreground" such gameplay processes. We can, in a very real fashion, get the most <em>enjoyment </em>out of the hobby for the least amount of <em>chore</em>.</p><p></p><p>I think at this point I have said my piece on this topic.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Composer99, post: 9112677, member: 7030042"] No, because RPG characters, the world they live in, and their activities are, quite literally, figments of our imagination. They're not real at all. We have no obligation to spend time thinking about "what is real" to figments of our imagination or even "what is important" to them! On the other hand, we [I]can[/I] do so if we [I][B]value[/B][/I] doing so. I want to hammer home this idea of [B]value[/B]. An RPG tailored to satisfy your preferences ought to value the same gameplay you do, more or less. Well and good! An RPG tailored to satisfy the various player constituencies of 5e ought to value the gameplay [I]they [/I]value, more or less. Also well and good! What is mystifying is that you can't seem to get past conflating "gameplay you value" and "what is objectively correct design for RPGs writ large" or "what RPG gameplay, writ large, ought to look like". What I am getting at is that what makes high-fidelity, high-resolution, highly-granular gameplay as regards in-fiction logistics so appealing to you is that it matches what you, personally, value - which is great! - but also that there is no "objective" or "universal" basis to assert that all RPGs must include that kind of gameplay: including it does not make an RPG better and excluding it does not make an RPG worse - it only makes it a better or worse fit with the kind of gameplay you value. Thanks for your condolences; with all sincerity, they are much appreciated. (The same is on offer for your mom if she has also passed.) As your own example of model train building and my example of abandoned painting of Blood Bowl minis shows, to my mind an enjoyable end result is not enough to sustain a person's interest in a hobby - [I]somewhere along the line[/I], the process itself also has to be enjoyable, or, at the very least, enjoyable [I]enough[/I]. I am sure it is correct to say there are aspects of the process of gardening my late wife did not enjoy, but she must have enjoyed the process enough to persist with gardening as a hobby - otherwise, she would have abandoned it, just as you abandoned model trains and I abandoned miniatures painting. The distinct thing about RPGs is that they have a whole lot more flexibility when it comes to gameplay process and when it comes to what we bother including in the explicitly-declared fiction: if we want to play a game of grand heroic adventure, we can downplay or exclude gameplay processes that force us to consider logistical questions within the fiction, and if we want to play a game of grim and gritty survival, we can include and "foreground" such gameplay processes. We can, in a very real fashion, get the most [I]enjoyment [/I]out of the hobby for the least amount of [I]chore[/I]. I think at this point I have said my piece on this topic. [/QUOTE]
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