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<blockquote data-quote="M_Natas" data-source="post: 9116318" data-attributes="member: 7025918">But a hidden roll is for a PC Action is ... I think it would be harder to take away a rollt hat is supposed to be done by the Player than to change this skills to passive scores.But &quot;I use skill&quot; is not an action declaration. Like, &quot;I use acrobatics to get over the chasm&quot; is like - no. What are you trying to do? Jumping over it? Lasso yourself over it? Ride on a horse that jumps and then you jump from the horse?In some cases, yes, using a skill as an action declaration can work. But in most cases it is not even vague. It is a Non-Declaration. Also the DM decides what Skill is applicable. Not the player.But how are the Sneaking past him? Like, that us the whole point that defined the difficulty. Are they trying to speak trough a completely empty corridors, hoping that the Guards will not turn around or are they hurrying from shadow to shadow using a special ability to get invisible in the shadows?The players need to declare clearly what they are trying to do and the DM decides, what Skill is used, if any.Put players shouting &quot;Insight!&quot; Is not an action declaration. That is the problem with insight and perception. That should be Completly passive skills sets.So for example a character is interrogating a Npc. He is focused on the NPC. After a minute the player declare &quot;Insight, I think he is lying&quot;.The player wants to roll the Insight Skill.But the Character hasn't changed a thing. He is still concentarting on the NPC Their is not suddenly concentraiting harder on the NPC.The fiction of the story does not support an Insight Check at all. The same with perception. That's why they should be completely passive skills that NPCs roll against. Like spell saving throw dcs of player characters.Because in the fiction of the story, the NPC is trying to deceive the player character. He is doing something trying to overcome the DC of the player character.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="M_Natas, post: 9116318, member: 7025918"] But a hidden roll is for a PC Action is ... I think it would be harder to take away a rollt hat is supposed to be done by the Player than to change this skills to passive scores. But "I use skill" is not an action declaration. Like, "I use acrobatics to get over the chasm" is like - no. What are you trying to do? Jumping over it? Lasso yourself over it? Ride on a horse that jumps and then you jump from the horse? In some cases, yes, using a skill as an action declaration can work. But in most cases it is not even vague. It is a Non-Declaration. Also the DM decides what Skill is applicable. Not the player. But how are the Sneaking past him? Like, that us the whole point that defined the difficulty. Are they trying to speak trough a completely empty corridors, hoping that the Guards will not turn around or are they hurrying from shadow to shadow using a special ability to get invisible in the shadows? The players need to declare clearly what they are trying to do and the DM decides, what Skill is used, if any. Put players shouting "Insight!" Is not an action declaration. That is the problem with insight and perception. That should be Completly passive skills sets. So for example a character is interrogating a Npc. He is focused on the NPC. After a minute the player declare "Insight, I think he is lying". The player wants to roll the Insight Skill. But the Character hasn't changed a thing. He is still concentarting on the NPC Their is not suddenly concentraiting harder on the NPC. The fiction of the story does not support an Insight Check at all. The same with perception. That's why they should be completely passive skills that NPCs roll against. Like spell saving throw dcs of player characters. Because in the fiction of the story, the NPC is trying to deceive the player character. He is doing something trying to overcome the DC of the player character. [/QUOTE]

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