What books describe a good magical world?
- Thread starter Khanedur
- Start date
Stephen Erikson's Malazan Books of the Fallen series deals rather well with a very magic rich world, ascendant beings, and others who just won't stay dead.
Also a book co-authored by Zelazny titled Donnerjack transports the characters into a Virtual Reality populated by AI gods and djinni with a strong mythological bent. Death is real, but only as effective as the software that models it.
Also a book co-authored by Zelazny titled Donnerjack transports the characters into a Virtual Reality populated by AI gods and djinni with a strong mythological bent. Death is real, but only as effective as the software that models it.
Celebrim
Legend
Andor said:
'Curse of Chalion' = Great novel. One of the best fantasy novels I've ever read, and it features the first invented pantheon that I can actually believe people would worship.
'Paladin of Souls' = Good novel. It suffers from a slow start and I feel a much less flattering, less daring, portrayal of the five gods that begins to de-deify them.
'The Hallowed Hunt' = Typical fantasy. Felt like I was reading a well concieved 'furry' fan-fiction at times. Plus it had that whole, "He's a wolf...She's a leapord...Together they fight crime.", pitch to it. The main characters felt shallow. I couldn't really find myself caring. I had a hard time plowing through it. Never felt as satisfying as the former two works, and did not hold my attention the way the Vorkosigian stories have.
Just my opinion of course, YMMV.
Mephistopheles
First Post
Khanedur said:
I think it more likely that even if they know how to handle this it determines a style of play or flavour that they simply don't enjoy.
This thread reminded me of this post by Monte in regards to Demon God's Fane where he talks about keeping higher level magic in mind when it comes to designing and running an adventure.
(On the off chance that anyone is actually playing through this module at the moment there may be spoilers depending where you're up to.)
http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?arch_dmonly16
Thanks guys, I knew I'd get some good reading out of this thread. You reminded me of a lot, and now I've got a list to take to the bookstore as well.
VannATLC, the things you mention are why I think altered carbon is a really good example of D&D resurrection handled well. Its expensive, so not everyone does it all the time. And the kind of res that most of the rest can afford (1) doesn't work if the body is destroyed and (2) weakens you enough that many people choose not to come back. (for those who haven't read it, in the book this was explained as "If you can afford to be young forever, immortality is great, but if you keep coming back to an old or inferior body, eventually you get tired of it")
While on the other hand if you have a bad guy with true res available, well then, you have to do something creative to keep him dead (I wont spoil the good examples in the book).
Thanks again.
VannATLC, the things you mention are why I think altered carbon is a really good example of D&D resurrection handled well. Its expensive, so not everyone does it all the time. And the kind of res that most of the rest can afford (1) doesn't work if the body is destroyed and (2) weakens you enough that many people choose not to come back. (for those who haven't read it, in the book this was explained as "If you can afford to be young forever, immortality is great, but if you keep coming back to an old or inferior body, eventually you get tired of it")
While on the other hand if you have a bad guy with true res available, well then, you have to do something creative to keep him dead (I wont spoil the good examples in the book).
Thanks again.
First, I would like to agree completely with Celebrim. It would seem that we have similar tastes in literature (especially regarding Gene Wolfe).
I don't have a problem with characters coming back from the dead in a novel, so long as there is a good reason in the story. I've never read a novel where coming back from the dead is as easy and cheesy as it was in earlier editions of D&D. I prefer campaigns where character death is possible, rare and permanent. It's likely I wouldn't have a problem if raising the dead required more than a spell and an expenditure of xp and gold. But it never has by the RAW.
I've never had one of my own characters raised from the dead. I may consider it in 4e, given the changes to they've made to the concept of resurrection. I do like the idea that those with a destiny can be brought back to fulfill it - but only if it's done quickly. That said, if one of my characters dies a heroic death, even with the aforementioned changes in 4e, I'd be loathe to bring him back. Perhaps that heroic death was his destiny.
As always, individual tastes are what matters most. I'm glad that raise dead will be de-emphasized at the low and middle tiers of D&D 4e. For the first time, I may not have to attempt major rewrites of the rules to get the campaign I want. It was always one of the most heavily house ruled elements in any home brew campaign I've run.
I don't have a problem with characters coming back from the dead in a novel, so long as there is a good reason in the story. I've never read a novel where coming back from the dead is as easy and cheesy as it was in earlier editions of D&D. I prefer campaigns where character death is possible, rare and permanent. It's likely I wouldn't have a problem if raising the dead required more than a spell and an expenditure of xp and gold. But it never has by the RAW.
I've never had one of my own characters raised from the dead. I may consider it in 4e, given the changes to they've made to the concept of resurrection. I do like the idea that those with a destiny can be brought back to fulfill it - but only if it's done quickly. That said, if one of my characters dies a heroic death, even with the aforementioned changes in 4e, I'd be loathe to bring him back. Perhaps that heroic death was his destiny.
As always, individual tastes are what matters most. I'm glad that raise dead will be de-emphasized at the low and middle tiers of D&D 4e. For the first time, I may not have to attempt major rewrites of the rules to get the campaign I want. It was always one of the most heavily house ruled elements in any home brew campaign I've run.
Pale Jackal
First Post
Agreeing with kennew... Heroic deaths are sexy, but yes, you kinda have to stay dead.
I do like how they're dealing with death in 4E, i.e. effectively getting rid of it in the heroic tier, and embracing it in the epic tier.
Finally, I love book threads. Going to have check out the Book of the New Sun (at least.)
I do like how they're dealing with death in 4E, i.e. effectively getting rid of it in the heroic tier, and embracing it in the epic tier.
Finally, I love book threads. Going to have check out the Book of the New Sun (at least.)
The Little Raven
First Post
Khanedur said:
I agree with Greg. Having a quest to protect the king from his usurper brother doesn't have the same impact if you can reverse his assassination with a spell you gain in the first 10 levels of play.
On the literature front, the only series that comes to mind that has "resurrection magic" and doesn't bother me is A Song of Ice and Fire and that's because the resurrection in that series isn't a pleasant thing.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Not literature, but have you seen Arnold Schwarzenegger "The sixth day"?
From the point of view of 'pervasive resurrection' it gives a very, very interesting take on the matter.
Some elements that could be used in a pervasive resurrection world include
* Those who control resurrection can control... all kinds of things. Control governments by offering something to the leaders or key individuals that nobody else can.
* The bad guys that - just won't die -. No matter how many times you kill them, they keep on popping up again.
From the point of view of 'pervasive resurrection' it gives a very, very interesting take on the matter.
Some elements that could be used in a pervasive resurrection world include
* Those who control resurrection can control... all kinds of things. Control governments by offering something to the leaders or key individuals that nobody else can.
* The bad guys that - just won't die -. No matter how many times you kill them, they keep on popping up again.
DeusExMachina
First Post
nnanji said:
QFT...
Steven Erikson is my favorite fantasy author and Roger Zelazny one of my favorite writers of all time.
Erikson (who based his series on a roleplaying game he created with his friend Ian Cameron Esslemont) does an excellent high magic world with deep and detailed backgrounds, scheming gods and wannabe gods are everywhere and in the meantime the common guy gets royally screwed by it most of the time. If I could run/play a game exactly like I wanted it to go, it'd be like this series...
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